What choice does she have really? If her daughter wants to go and she’s 21 I dont really she were there is a decision to be made.

Not that I can judge miss Karen parenting techinques because I dont know her. But maybe she should have put her foot down 20 years and some months ago. Whats this obession with being your childs friend? We have evolved into this pussy ass hybrid of friend and parent thing thats ruining our youth. You can have a good relationship with your child and still be parent meaning putting foot to ass when necessary.

I see so many people close to me making this mistake of letting their kids dictake the situation because they dont want them to cry or they think that shit is cute. I dont play that. And this isnt about phyical contact(90% of the time) its just letting them know you run the show. There are certain things my god-son dont pull with me that he does with his father. Oh he tries but I end that shit quick.

“I dont need a basket and Im not getting a basket”

“And you bet not cry either”

“You better fix your face”

“What did I just say. Dont ask again”

You guys better start using your aurthority pharse.

While it may not work for everyone and every situation but I was raised with a combination of firm limits and unconditional love.

There have to be ground rules (finishing school, having a job etc.) by which kids – even grown ones – should play. But outside of that parents should allow their offspring to develop into the people they want to be while accepting their choices even if they do not approve all the time.
Now if ground rules are being broken, parents should definitely put their foot down.

However, I am not one for putting your kids on the street or calling the police on your own child. Those are things I would never do – no matter what. So I guess I am not too sold on truly tough love.

Rules, limits – yes. Physically disciplining, putting in harms way (physical, financial, whatever), abandoning – no.

In all honesty though, I don’t expect a woman who allows a man to hit her continuously to know about good parenting. If I was her daughter I would not take one piece of advice from a woman who obviously doesn’t know any better herself. Sorry.

This was an absolute awesome post. I feel you completely. Sometimes though it’s a lot easier to “handle” business for someone else than it is to handle your own. Heck..prolly gives Karen a reason to not focus on getting her ish together. Not the point though. Totally agree with you. Tough love is necessary. Not only with the ones you love…but with YOURSELF. Until you are able to recognize that you got to do some seemingly f’d up things in order to get your world aligned properly, you can’t do right by anyone. Tough love is necessary and I hope that if i’m blessed to have kids I will have raised them with the expectation that my love comes in many shades but i mean the best in each hue. I mean…how can you fix someone else…when you broken?

I agree!!!! Sometimes you have to take your hands off your children and let them see what the “real” world has for them. We can want the best for them, but they have to want the best for themselves too.

Tough love is hard (i know from experience) but you have to do it for the child’s sake. We do not help them to become responsible adults (i believe that is the job of parents) if we constantly spoon feed them.

The mother is not abandoning her daughter by letting her go live with the boyfriend, she’s letting her be the adult that she is. We all have to bump our heads-and the world will do just that. Maybe the daughter will wake up and recognize what’s going on, maybe not. All the mother can do is pray for her daughter (that’s what i do daily).

Prayer does change things!!!

let me even had come up in my parents house with not one but two babies, no job, a no good man, 22, and no school? my ass woulda been thrown out faster than i could pop out the second kid. but that is precisely why i didn’t have children before I could raise them – i was deathly afraid of my parents reaction and disappointment in me if i became a mother before my “time”. but that is each parent’s job to raise their children with the respect level of parent and child – not friend and child. i love my parents dearly, but i know they’re not my friends. and that respect will maintain.

Ok Karen is a trip. First off how do you let your 22 year old dayghter go live with someone else? She is a adult she can live were she wants. She needs to let her daughter see what it is really like to be a parent and struggle and maybe she will stop having all these damn kids she cant take care of. i am sure Karen is taken on the majority of the responsiblity for the child and her daughter really does not understand what it is like to be a mother.
As far as her relationship with her husmand I agree if she dont want to change the situation dont complain about it and just go ahead and stay with him. She must like getting bust upside the head.

Do you think DC Man was too harsh on Karen?

Nope.

Should she focus on her own problems and let her daughter live her own life?

Yep. If her parenting tactics haven’t worked by now, they won’t. Her daughter is grown.

Is this a case of Karen being jealous of the other grandmother?

I don’t think Karen is jealous of the other grandmother, I just think she is concerned that the other grandmother will condone the slacker behavior of her daughter and child’s father. She probably doesn’t want her granddaughter in that environment but what makes that any worse than having the children in an abusive environment? I agree with Elle, her daughter probably isn’t taking her seriously because she cannot get herself together.

Would you stay with someone that was hitting you?

NO and NO! I’ve never been hit and I plan to keep it that way. Especially since I am a mother or a girl who needs to see the proper way a man should to treat a woman and of a boy who needs to know how to treat a woman properly.

My mom got into a heated argument with my brother’s father when I was 10 and I picked up a frying pan. I do not play.

Is there a certain point when a parent has to cut the purse strings and let their children learn for themselves?

Absolutely and I believe that starts from early on by allowing children to experience natural and logical consequences of their actions.

Do mothers have a harder time letting go than fathers?

I don’t want to make a blanket statement, but it appears that is true.

Do you think it’s triflin’ for Karen’s daughter to have two kids at 22?

I had two kids when I was 22.

I think this question would have been better phrased as ‘Is Karen’s daughter’s life situation triflin’?.

It isn’t always about age. That is not necessarily the factor that makes Karen’s daughter’s situation messed up.

Or is the boyfriend more triflin’ for trying to shack up in his mama’s house with no job?

You shouldn’t make babies if you have to live with your parents.

Would you be upset if your child dropped out of college?

Yes.

Do parents tend to discipline their sons and daughters differently?

I believe so. My mother would have kicked me out if I wasn’t working and in college. My brother has been in and out of jail and had no job and she carries him.

Do you believe in tough love?

I do and I exercise it. My children need to be ready for the world and need to understand that everything is not just going to be handed to them.

Are you surprised that both Karen’s marriage and her relationship with her daughter are unravelling at the same time?

I am not, I think she has been on that life trajectory for some time. I agree that Karen first order of business is to get her life going in the right direction and look to building some personal stability because where she is personally and emotionally may not be of much value to her daughter or grand kids today. It is difficult to be anyone’s rock when you a rolling stone.

Once she gets her situation established then she can work on a plan to get the daughter/grand kids in a better place. So letting them live with Baby Daddy and his Mama could be the best for a while until Karen is in a place to provide better. It is hard to advise people on how to manage their relationships with their kids. Because those relationships are often fraught with feelings of guilt, shame and a myriad of other feelings.

What results is that a mother who ends up with an adult daughter at home with an infant and another on ethe way, with no job and and very little prospects begins to question all her decisions concerning her daughter from birth to this point. Mothers rightly or wrongly take on more responsibility for how their children’s lives turn out more than fathers. So while she may hear all the opiniosn being expressed and agree on the face that they are correct, her feelings as a mother will not allow her folow the advice.

In sales you learn all decisions are emotional, people tend to make decisions to change their situation only when the current state becomes untenable and they can no longer maintain it without causing irrevocable harm to their position. Until Karen gets to that point, nothing, you me or the wall can say will make her act.

As for the daughter, I always go back to the GodFather and whether it is better to be loved or feared and as always it is feared, because it last longer. Most children are gonna do as they are taught and what Karen’s daughter was taught is that my Mom has no limits when it comes to me. There were points in my growing up years when i hated my parents as their whole focus seem to be to deny me the things I thought were important to my happiness. I very much appreciate them very much today as I now know they scrimped, scraped and sacraficed to provide me with the things I needed to become a contributing adult. I thank them in every way I can because they made the tough decisions even when it was not the easiest.

at this point this woman does need to get her life together. the reason the child is laying up in her house pregnant with a child already here, is because she knows her mother is going to take care of her. Just like she took care of her father after he laid his hands on her, is raising the 18 month old, and is still raising the 20 year old.

let that child go live with the boyfriend, and get a real dose of reality of what being an adult is all about. being one surely isn’t about laying on your back, we got stupid little kids doing that.

eventually the first lucid thought will hit her and she will come back, apologize and get herself together…

and if not… she will have to pray for the girl *which she should be doing regardless*

as a parent, i would not want this for my child, but if he gets to this point, and i can’t do anything, life will have to teach him the hard lessons i cannot.

i know i sound cold, but young men/women and children today are coddled into a false entitlement. that’s what seems to be the problem along with her watching her mom get beat, and no authority in the house or rules in the home. i realize i am on the outside looking in though…

sorry bout the run-ons *my grammatic bane* i had to get the thoughts out as i typed.

peace and blessing ya’ll

the daughter needs to pack it up & be on her way. young adults are TOO COMFORTABLE these days w/others footing the bill for their mistakes. even if karen wasn’t in the effed up predicament she’s in…the daughter needs to get to steppin. it’s time for her to learn responsibility & who is & isn’t worth layin down w/. & if their lives don’t climb out of the gutter, it’s cuz they must like the way it smells down there.

At age 22 with child you might have to let your daughter exercise her option to be out on her own. Your financial status is part of “family planning”–or at least its suppose to be.

I don’t think it’s harsh at all. Age is truly just a number because my mom was doing what I’m doing at the age of 14…because she HAD no damn choice. People grow and wise up when they HAVE to or their just naturally responsible and independent. Karen does need to focus on herself and get it together so she can have the patience and time to teach her daughter how to fish instead of fishing for her.

Do you think DC Man was too harsh on Karen? Hell NO!

Should she focus on her own problems and let her daughter live her own life? Yes, Karen needs to get herself together before she can guide her daughter.

Is this a case of Karen being jealous of the other grandmother? No, it’s a case of not wanting to let go because her daughter and grandchild are the only things she has any control over at this point.

Would you stay with someone that was hitting you? Never under any circumstances.

Is there a certain point when a parent has to cut the purse strings and let their children learn for themselves? Yes and that point was reached when her daughter made the adult decision to have a child.

Do mothers have a harder time letting go than fathers? Some mothers do. They are the mothers who stop having lives of their own after they have children.

Do you think it’s triflin’ for Karen’s daughter to have two kids at 22? Or is the boyfriend more triflin’ for trying to shack up in his mama’s house with no job? Triflin’ no. Ri-DAMN-DICULOUS in 2010, HELL YES! 2 kids @ 22 in a severely depressed economy doesn’t bode well. 2 parents who are basic slackers with 2 kids, won’t be living in my house. They can visit but I am not taking care of any grown men.

Would you be upset if your child dropped out of college? yes, because I’ve provided opportunities for her to succeed in college. I would be disappointed.

Do parents tend to discipline their sons and daughters differently? I’ve seen this with my friends and my mom.

Do you believe in tough love? HELL YES!!! My daughter is 11 and she knows we are not friends. This is a dictatorship not a democracy. At 18 you need to head off to college and should you come home pregnant, make a choice that you can support because your choices are no longer my responsibility after you turn 18. I’ve been preaching that since she was 3, so there’s no question about how things work in our household. I love her but I am tough as required because the world is tough. She’s irritated now because she can’t have a cell phone or be on the internet every day. Now her daddy thinks I’m mean. I told her you can always go live with him and have weekend visitations at my house but once you move out you have to stick it out for one full school year. She says she rather stay and deal with the rules.

I think you spoke the truth…

I think DC was too harsh on Karen and here’s why: Karen is an abused woman who probably feels very alone and isolated due to her husband’s behavior. I doubt that she has many people to turn to at all to deal with this … and DC’s response is to dismiss her and shut her out. That doesn’t help the situation and in fact makes it worse, as it reinforces the isolation and low self esteem she already feels. I agree with the other advice he gave, but he said the wrong thing there.

I think if you call yourself grown then you are that. She is 22 with two kids and no job that’s too much if she was still in school and trying to better herself maybe it would be a little different. But she is a drop out and just want’s to lay around while her mother takes care of her child no Karen should kick her out and also get her life together cause 9 out of 10 she will be back and a parent should always be in a position to help their kids and grandkids when they truly need the help.

I had my daughter at 21 and lived at home. I was in school full time, and worked part time until I graduated. My Parents helped me, but best believe I was not walking my ass in that house with another kid. Not finishing school was NOT an option. Not having a job was not an option either, so I had to suck it up and deal with it.

Karen’s daughter is 22, let her be “grown” since that is what she wants to do. One is easy, I’m sure two is not. Karen will learn- – or not.

And ^5 @ TYH. My daughter is 11 and knows that mommy loves her to the moon and back, but we are NOT friends. Hell, my mother and I are now friends, but that’s only because I moved out of her house 5 years ago!!!! Like my parents told me and like I will tell my child: as long as you are doing the right thing, we will help you all we can. You are grown only when you are paying your own way on your own.

Karen doesn’t exactly sound like a role model for parental strength herself. I can’t stand when parents get self-righteous about their children and expect them to magically grow up and show good judgment and responsibility when they haven’t. Then when the children are an embarrassment, they want to turn them loose.

I am in complete agreement with you, Hayzel, so U are NOT alone. As a parent and brother I learned the hard way that people WILL survive without me. WILL survive without my last dollar; without me begging and robbing Peter so THEY can pay Paul. That if I can’t give it without doing myself harm, someone else will come to the rescue. Family can call you and make you feel guilty about being unable to help them; you stress; you borrow; you give them your rent money–then you findout someone else would have given it to them easily, but they didn’t wanna ASK that person. Hold on, YOU were down and out, but you got a beef with “X” so you won’t ask them for money, but I just gave you my mortgage money? And you can’t pay me back for 2-3 months? YOU, have too much pride to ask THAT person, but not too much pride to take my rent money–IF I give it to you? I only had to go through B/S twice b4 I learned the lesson that I can’t let others guilt trip me into helping them–if it hurts me. I ended up stressing out, coming up short and discovered it all coulda been easily avoided. Naw, shawty, you gotta put yourself FIRST in such cases. Kinda like they tell you on an airplane: U gotta put on your oxygen mask first, b4 you can help others. If YOUR needs aren’t being met….You can’t really help anyone else out.

I also agree with Rasta’s comment about how as a youth WE often do not FULLY appreciate all the sacrifices of time and money that our parents willingly contribute for our growth, development and pleasure. A young persons mind easily forgets 100 beneficial deeds when a parent denies one request. And most things denied are for a good reason: to set boundaries (no one gets EVERYTHNIG they want), becuz it’s not good for you (that “crowd” is going to get you in trouble), or bcuz you haven’t fulfilled YOUR responsibility–U got a “D” in a class your teacher says should be an easy “A” and now you want another PS3 game? Naw, slim, you don’t get rewarded for failure. As Dathrone said: We can’t coddle our kids and try to be their friend. Parenting is serious work and most kids don’t “get it” until they’re adults. One of the hardest things most parents have to learn is to NOT expect a kid to think as an adult. Kids think in kid ways, no matter HOW friendly, easy going and positive you are as a parent. Love and protection should be freely given to ones children, but the need to set rules and make subjective judgments based on your experience and knowledge can never be relinquished. We don’t need to negotiate expectations and behavior. Most things I will explain, not that my kid has to agree, but so they will know how I am thinking about an issue, but Some shyt you just gonna have to do “bcuz” you live under MY roof, eat my food, wear the clothes I buy and soak up the air conditioning and heat I provide.

I’m a firm believer that in order to help others, you must help yourself first. I know that statement may sound selfish, but one must be their best self in order to provide nurturing and assistance to another.

Karen can’t really help her daughter while her own life is in shambles. If her daughter sees her making an attempt to better herself, she just may follow.

lol @ TYH…U my gurl !!!!!! That’s what I’m talkin about. U properly told your daughter: U wanna go live with your dad–cool, but U gotta stay there for a minute. Ain’t gonna be no runnin back and forth every other week. ol’boy calling you mean might score some points with the daughter, but down the road, he’ll see how easy life will be bcuz you’re daughter will KNOW: momma don’t play! And it’s a good sign you’re daughter is already aware, at some level, that what you are doing is BEST for her.
I am continuously amazed by what ppl can live with and through. A few smacks for one woman is ONE too many, while another woman will withstand them and find a reason to remain in that household. It’s hard not to judge those actions or the lack there of, but I can’t allow it to cause me to lose any sleep bcuz ultimately, Karen has the power to change her environment and put a stop to the B/S. You can’t make a drug abuser stop abusing drugs, but you CAN stop being an enabler by NOT giving them any money. When I was in the military, I was part of a team that went to places like Columbia to help fight the war on drugs, and WE as the US gov were saying: All you guys gotta do is stop growing poppies to make coke and crack from, and the Columbian’s would say: All the US has to do is stop its citizens from using illegal drugs and there will be no market for the poppies…Oh, ok. I see how this is gonna go…….

Do I believe in tough love?

DO NOT read below ladies if not ready for the absolute TRUTH:

First, get your grown ass son out of your house! Snatch the football comforter off. Grab him by the foot and drag him out of the pee-stained twin bed that he grew up in. Push him past his little league trophies; usher him through the living room where he took prom pictures and throw him out onto the sidewalk that you still have to beg him to shovel when it snows. Close down the kitchen. Stop giving him allowance. It’s time for both of you to move on. There is nothing cool about a man who can’t wash his own butt or a mother who keeps him in diapers.

2. Even bugs find a way to get out of the nest, but mamma’s boys spend their entire life under the care of some woman.

3. Give him a chance to taste the bitter medicine of failure.

Above excerpts from author Steve Perry’s book: Man Up! Nobody is coming to save us

Let her go….. get your life together and re-load… parents gotta keep in mind once their children are grown they gotta let them drive and let go of the sterring wheel…. do you know how hard it is to drive with 4 hands on that thing?…

Yo, Ausfahrt, these are golden words: “Give him a chance to taste the bitter medicine of failure.” I’ma USE that one bcuz ery’body can understand THAT. And Neo…U got jokes! 4 hands on the steering wheel…that shyts funnyyyyyyy! And it’s such a difficult thing for many parents to do. Let GO! They’ll be alright. U can’t prevent your adult kids from getting some bruises, or prevent other ppl from having some beef with your son or daughter; Or, prevent your kid from doing STUPID shyt; from making mistakes and bad decisions. U did ALL of that–and Yo azz is still here..right? Your adult kids will live through their mistakes too. The world isn’t going to come to an end bcuz YOUR kids are out of the house and on their own. They might even do some freaky-deaky shyt, but so what. U wanna tell YOUR mom and dad all the sexual shyt YOU’VE done? I thought not….lol

DC Man was absolutely right, the whole family is in disarray but mothers have a tendency to want to help their children until they just can’t anymore. My mother has done the same thing for my married with two kids brother who is just content him and his horrible wife to be downtrodden, its a shame for the grandkids but if you keep holding the hand of your child then they won’t ever learn how to stand on their own two feet alone. Tough love is required sometimes, if they don’t fall on their ass then they won’t learn the necessary lessons life has to teach them. If they know they have a safety net in place they don’t care about trying to do better.

how about pre-parenting classes before women get pregnant along with the potential father…..

In nurturing a kid I believe in offering carrots & sticks, tough love, rewards, incentives and what have you. Some parents tend to provide their kids with all the love & things they were not privy to when they were kids that they forget what made them who they are,to be able to withstood whatever came their way, weathered every storm they encountered.

DC Man probably is not the first person to offer her these advice, which apparently fell on deaf ears.
She probably waiting for some divine intervention of sort.

This goes without saying, you can’t help the sick if you are one. She is in a dire situation and it’s a long time in the making. Though an ideal life might seems bleak I think there’s still hope if she can remove herself out of her daughter’s life & let her go. In her situation this might be difficult at first but hey it’s all for the greater good.

Karen can offer to babysit the kids only if she gets a job, she can only move back if she agree to pay rent.

I have an aunt in a similar situation always complaining about her 27yr old son is unruly, leaves dishes for her to wash,turned their entrance door into a revolving door-everyone goes in & out, blah blah blah “all I say is this is your house….” “oh but I don’t want him on the street” “ok so put up with his BS”

Strength comes from struggle. Tough love doesn’t kill it makes you stronger.

DC Man good advice! Definitely not too harsh and if she felt that way, maybe she’ll feel differently once her situation is better and will see that’s what she needed.

Now would I kick my child out in this scenario…without a doubt! I come from the school of aint nobody laying round the house during business hours unless you’re sick. Now don’t get me wrong,I wouldn’t see her homeless, but she’d have to get out cause I think I’d kill her. Simply put, you were grown enough to lay down, be grown enough to take care of your responsibilities when you get your ass up. It must also mean you’re gettin your ass out when you come home & tell me you’re pregnant AGAIN! Because I suppose getting pregnant again meant you knew what you were doing and what you were going to do when you decided to keep it.

Now as for Karen, she definitely needs to get it together. That’s part of the reason, her daughter is not fully “together”.

Its my belief that parents (not one more than the other) have a hard time letting go of the children. The difference only lies with what they have a hard time letting go of.

I did my share of dirt growing up, but overall my parents did a good job of keeping me out of some things without keeping me sheltered. I grew up in a time where college was not an option. It was a given because I was a Cosby/Different World kid. I wanted that lifestyle. I wanted to have that fun. But above and beyond that, I had the fear of my parents instilled in me. Plus I didn’t want to be a disappointment to them. That’s what’s lacking nowadays. The kids don’t have that fear because some of these parents are too busy trying to be their friend. Cut it out.

It’s funny because i just gave my own 48 year old sister the same speech. She was just informed that her 18 year old daughter is preggers and she is at home with no job and no license or state I.D. and no intention of getting them. Her mother recently laid off, has said that kicking her out would be taken under advisment. Im thinking(WTF?), Who does this when there barely taking care of themselves? Then I realized you just have too let people suffer their own fate and let it go. By that I mean really separate from their situation completely..

Uhm hell yes I believe in tough love. She’d be a SAD excuse for a friend if she let her buddy continue on foolishly supporting her daughters ridiculously irresponsible choices.