Speaking for myself (@29years of age) Im differently feeling the push to get something going. I havent had a fear of commitment since I was fresh out of my teens. Yet havent been in a relationship since W. Bush’s first term. I want a wife and kids the whole deal and now I’ll be 30 this year(80 baby LOL) its really bugging me almost to the point of depression. I want to be able to play ball with my kids not just coach from the side. Good thing I have a nephews, nieces and a god-son to get my paternalistic fixes.

I’m a black woman and I’m straight on the typical. I’m about to be 30 this year…and I don’t have kids…and I am single. There are good men out there for good women. When I meet him, then I’ll settle. I have had two serious relationships. I’ve never fantasized about marriage and a big wedding day. In fact…if I ever do get married I’d prefer to elope to a nice island getaway and get married there…come back and have a party to celebrate with fam and friends…hopefully he’s down with that. (I don’t like the idea of following societal plans…even if I was married with kids…it wouldn’t be because I was conforming to “the way it’s supposed to be” …but that would be just how it turned out. Worrying about doing this that or the other by a certain age causes stress. Just do it…but be smart…and don’t become desperate and settle for a mediocre partner just to have someone)

@Calmedcooled i understand where your coming from totally. i am about to be 29 and im single and my thing honestly make sure your shit is together first thats my belief and find a partner who shit is together. i live in one of the second or third poorest city in the country where you have so many so many couples or that what some claim to be with children surviving of the system and im not knocking that at all. But that not how i want to raise my family i want my kids not to know whats that like i want my husband that gone be a provider and a loving supporting father as well it may not happen at 25 or 30 but in the meantime when it do be prepared……Ladies we too old to be just wifey, fellas if you gon settle know who you with

As a black single mother about to turn 32, I have to say that I have pushed my timeline back on marriage about 3 times. The first was 25. Then 30. Now 42. Living in a small retirement town, commuting to work in a mostly college town and working in a white female dominated field makes my dating prospects almost zero. All of my closest girlfriends (who live in large urban areas in various states) are either married or in committed relationships and while they have memories of their single days, I long to get rid of mine. I know I don’t want to have any more children and hopefully the man made for me will understand that.

I don’t think that marriage is a cherished institution within the black community anymore. The lack of accountability has lead to the destruction of the family structure and the disbelief in true love, IMO.

Do I want to be married…sure! Do I think it will ever happen…I’m really not sure.

Yea the Cosby show is as bad as Disney movies for females… lol!

*…I just started reading NWSO and like the blogs the comments are very entertaining! KUDOS!*

Anywho back to the subject..for me right now Im looking for a good relationship. Marriage was never like THE THING for me to do. I think women just need to take one step at a time and not rush marriage. Thankfully we live in a time when being a ‘old’ parent isn’t a terrible thing.
Im going to 30 soon…’81 ;>…and I think society, family, media ,etc. all play a role in how we view relationships, but its up to the person to live their life their way and not how others would want them to.

As far as a timeline thats ridiculous anyways. I would never suggest anybody set a timeline. Thats a recipe for heartache ,but I think getting older should result in new tactics and some serious self reflection. But everybody dont place the same stock in finding somebody. Some people have themselves completely convinced they dont need a S.O.. While I believe my life would be meaningless without love. Im doing my best to convince myself that I dont need love ,but its not going as well. I would hate if 20 years from now Im still childless and loveless *giving my disgusted look*

I tend to be in it for the long haul in my relationships so weather he knows it or not hey… But marriage is what it is. Not many of them are sacred anymore anyways so why really rush into something that is so destined to fail this day and time. I’m happy who I’m with and I’m fine with that me and my son are okay and I’ll be 30 in a little over a year. If you have lived and learned any thing in life you know it is not like the shows you see on t.v.

People do look at marriage differently I believe with age. I’m only 20, but I’m guilty of setting up my life plan. I want to be married somewhere in between 25-28 so I can have two or three good years with my husband before the kids come (I also want my kids GONE and in college before I turn 50). I know there are quite a few men who feel like getting married after 30 is “the right thing” to do b/c they’re not getting any younger and then there are men my age who shudder at the thought of marriage, hell they shudder at the thought of being locked down in a relationship with one more person for more than two-three years.

I blame Black America on this though b/c as stated, if a woman is of a certain age and she’s not with someone men automatically think something is wrong with her so they want nothing to do with her. Women also feel like they must be married before 35 b/c they think their eggs are going to be all dusty. Plus, I know a lot of white girls in the marriage announcements of my citiy’s newspaper are pretty young (usually two or three years out of college) which leads many of us to think that we too should be married soon. Now with Black men, they have come to comfortable with settling for the baby daddy title I feel. This way they can have kids yet if they want nothing to do with the mother they can still have fun and play the field until it gets old.

2010, I definitely settling down and getting married this ‘decade’.jk Ladies bark at your boy, I mean business…2019 here I come!!!!

I’m 30 and don’t give a damn about getting married. 1) I know many people who are married, but very few who are happily married and faithful 2) I’m starting to think the whole institution of marriage is a bit crazy. One person for the rest of your life? And if it doesn’t work out your ex-wife takes half? Including half the 401k!!! Bullshit. 3) I read a study that said after four years of marriage 80-90% of couples were less satisfied than they were at the beginning of marriage (It’s late, I don’t feel like providing a citation).

I’m more likely to have a middle class version of the Brad Pitt-Angelina Jolie relationship. But who knows? Maybe I’ll end up feeling the need to make it official/cave in to societal pressure and get married.

OMG that first picture hella funny! I will admit that once I got out of college I felt like play time was over. In my mind it was time to settle down and build a family. -Like you said I don’t want to be an “old mommy” . Heck I’m a teacher and I see on a daily the type of kids “old mommies” produce. -So from graduation on any man I met would be rated on the “Marriage Material” scale. Needless to say I’ve been out of college for 4 years and I’m still NOT married. The good news is I’m in a GREAT relationship.

I would rather be single and in love….. marriage is overrated i think. I see more married people cheating these days its unreal. I also think everybody is not marriage material.

Imagine it’s illegal for Blacks to marry in 45 states
Imagine they use the Bible to justify it.
Imagine the majority of Blacks support the ban
Imagine the president believing you’re not entitled
Imagine they call to protect sanctity of marriage
Imagine being deprived of 1100+ marriage rights
Imagine You fighting for the civil right to marry
Imagine you’re disregarded as a real family
Imagine You
Imagine Me
I don’t imagine it – It’s my reality in 2010.
I imagine, someday, joining your above conversation, but for now YOU and many others keeping forcing me to remain in the shadows and keep silent.
Imagine that? Unfortunatley, you cannot!

I often wonder why we base so much of our dealings with people on values and mores from 300 B.C. Our view of marriage is based on standards from folks who still believed that the earth was shaped in 7 days. Im not anti-marriage, I am anti-fairy tale. In the past death do you part worked cause folks only lived to be 20, so that gave you what, 10-15 years with a person. Now yall wanna live to be 100….

All in all, for me its not about the legally mandated document or having every one of my sorority sisters as my bridesmaids. Its about the comfort of having a partner who provides intimacy, compassion, laughter and support along the journey. In the end, it might not be for the whole of the journey, but Im pretty sure, I can find another one to pick up where that one left off.

@ 19 I probably don’t have much experience with all the marriage stuff (let’s be honest, dating in general isn’t my thing ), but even I feel the pressure. First grandkid, only child, not dating? Thats just blasphemous.

The pressure comes from a very early age, from that first Barbie and Ken set, and gets heavier and heavier the older you get.

As a rebel of society, kinda, if the right guy ever comes along and he wants the whole Cosby thing without getting married, I’d do it. The focus isn’t on the actual wedding and the kids, but on the love you have for that person.

ok, i’m 32, and i thought i was there, i thought i was ready to move down the road to marriage and ‘locking someone down’, but after a failed dating situation, i realized that staying in a situation for the wrong reasons (wanting to be in something) is far worse that being alone. Now, i just wanna be happy with someone, and lets go from there.

men also have a biological clock, even if it doesn’t seem as pressing as women. bottomline, upon arriving in your 30’s, pressures do arise: too old to still be in the club, time to stop playing the field, time to figure it out and settle it down.

i, too read The Conversation. I recently cleaned out my bookshelf, and stumbled upon, The Conversation, Love Smart, The Vixen Diaries, Getting to I Do, He’s just not that into you, and the Tough Love book. I can not recall what was in any of these, but thats another story.

I look forward to being in a serious,monogamous relationship, this year. Then we can go from there.

I am 31 years old and I am not closer to wanting to get married as I am to having children. Both to me are a very serious decision and IMO one that shouldn’t be taken lightly!

I would rather be single and in love than married just because…I refuse to settle for less than I deserve and desire!

I do not think ‘life’ has to begin at 30, although I do agree people do tend to look at their lives alot differently once they hit 30, I think it has to do with the fact that we have lived a fair bit of our lives (1/3 if you hope to live to 90). I think we reaalize that we are mortal and that ‘life’s clock’ is ticking!

I do think on some level society does train us to think marriage and babies. I’ve known men who were younger than 30 who wanted this. More so because they wanted to have and provide for others because they didn’t have it themselves or that they wanted to get it done and out of the way (I know a cold way to thinking but hey some people are like that) and others because that is truly what they wanted in life! So really it runs the gammit!

For me I had this discussion with my 36 year old cousin, and he is finally ready to settle down, whereas I am not. I made a point that it kinda scares me, and he just said I do not know what I want. Its true, on some level, however I just feel I am not ready for something like that quite yet.

I do know this, I want to have a man in my life who is there for me in all aspects, however I am not joining the rat race of jumping the broom because my friends are! I do not have the ticking clock as I have reasoned with myself that I rather be happy and unmarried than settle for what seems ‘acceptable’ (aka a mediocre marriage).

Khalid’s post was good, a nice perspective on life in our 30’s!

i’m 32 and still haven’t figured my relationship status out. i just came to the realization that every man i’ve dated in the last 8 years i’ve chosen subconsiously because i’m afraid of getting my heart broken again, so i choose men who are emotionally unavailable. enough already. time to cut people off who have been toying with the little emotion i do give, and give those who have been a better match for long term more of my time. I’ve already resigned to the fact that whatever goals i set up regarding marriage and children will not occur on my timeline, and i’m glad they didn’t. i would have been no good as a wife and mother at 25 – i recognize that and am thankful i am not in that position at this time.

I am 41. I am a never married mother of one nearly grown child and yes my perspective on marriage has changed. I was, even with a child (who was especially brilliant and adorable) on the receiving end of a fairly large number of proposals when I was in my 20s but didn’t marry because I had an idealized image of partner marriage and seemed to be asked by dudes who had some expectation that they would marry me and we would live happily ever after in patriarchy. At 29 I had found the patriarch of my dreams and felt ready to commit to him when my long streak of proposals dried up. He was older and badly divorced twice with a child from each marriage and never getting married again…

I was in my early 30s when we finally broke up and I thought I had wised up when I stopped dating patriarchal dudes. The upside was that I had much happier and healthier relationships with the men I proceeded to date for 18- 30 months each in blissful serial monogamy. The downside, these dudes while not categorically opposed to marriage, never seriously proposed to me and they are all still unmarried. They don’t see the point. They all have one child with either extremely bad or notably good co-parenting situations so don’t feel procreational stress. They are attractive and social and smart and know lots of cool women including friendly exes…

Reflecting on the reality as I approached 40 blew my mind and broke my heart. I considered a return to the patriarchal dudes because, I really, really wanted to be married but thought better of myself than to be carried off cheap in a desperation sale…

Now I find myself turning down the nice but non-committal, I don’t think I have the emotional constitution for any more merry-go-round loving. I am on the fence about marriage now, I miss having a someone but I also know I can make it without a someone, albeit a little less cheerfully. I like to say that I am open but not holding on to any expectations that I will ever marry. Some days this makes me sad. Some days it doesn’t.

I am 30 and when that milestone hit I felt special. I felt like a new adult lady. It’s hard to expalin. However I’m single and wanting to b married. I’ve been given encouragement due to in the last few months I’ve seen 3 ladies find love, marry, and have or are expecting lil ones. All of the women were over 40. I go back and forth on marriage being over rated. I’m definately over the fair tale wedding part. But I mainly bend because I see my self as independent. I have all I have sought, except a hubby. But the 30 somethings around me are havn a hard time. They don’t have cars- let alone apts or homes. I don’t want to be with someone who I have to start out taking care of. These aren’t men who have made it ok then fell on hard times. They just havnt come up, still living wit able bodied parents, etc. I feel like if I have worked hard to see my dreams so what are my peers waiting on? And then I decide to bump up my age bracket and the 40 somethings are not up for startn a fam or they are only lookin for “fun”. Let patience have her perfect work. I just embrace the wonderful male freinds I have, (who just haven’t proven themselves marriage material) and continue looking at all I dreamed of and actually saw come to pass. If I can have it all with the exception of a hubby, that’s not a bad loss.

@ Mark: “bark” at you…really? U already asking for trouble:)

Marriage for young black people has gone the way of the church, the history of users, abusers and foggy lenses due to a fairy tale outcome dies on deaf ears. We are in the information age, let me say that again, we are in the information age and the aspect of blind faith and cliches are a joke now. Information is available for people who seek it and any child born after the 80s will seek it. Thus it comes to another old tradition that has been drilled into our heads by parents whose parents did the same. Sing it with me: Go to school, get an education, find a nice secure job, find a nice man and marry him and have a boy and a pretty little girl to live in your ranch style home until death do you part.

The reality however is no job is secure, education is a joke (look at all the MBAs and PHDs that arent in their fields), church is portrayed as a hive of judgemental zealots and marriage is a fairy tale for Romance Comedies.

I don’t believe in marriage the way people did when women were supposed to be barefoot in the kitchen and men were supposed to be building the Hoover dam. Marriage seems like a liability to a man who has broken the rules of getting a secure job, going to church and settling down. We are in a society that has gone back to becoming entrepreneurs, maximizing assets and making their own way. For an enterprising man the M word is a huge liabilty unless he is madly in love… you can blame publicized court fiascos like Nas and Kelis.

Yes our views change as we get older, and you are 100% correct on men who decide to get married out of it being his time (I have a friend guilty of this, not even sure he loves the girl) but it will continue to decline and its partly due to technology and free thinking.

I’m happily single with a long term mate.

I am 24 and marriage for men and woman are diff. Its hard to find that equillibrium when both want to really get married. Its in the norm to have a timeline to have a marriage and the life that you want, but some just jump the broom, just because theyre in a time crunch. That wouldnt constitute a loving marriage at all. Everything to me is societal driven, everything! In our youth, we are conditioned to have fun, not worry so much, but as time passes, you see that its time to settle down. So is it fair to say that young women should date an older man to have that marriage she desires (if shes in her 20s early 30s) because at a certain age most men arent ready especially in their 20’s

I think everyone look at marriage differently today then how they did years ago. I feel that most women want to be married at an earlier age then men. And that most men don’t really think abot it, rather they are presuaded to get married. LOL

I’m 36. Single mother of 2. Single per choice. When I was in my 20’s I never thought about settling down, I was enjoying life to much. I have had several marriage proposals. But said “No” because I knew I was not ready. Now that I am older I still don’t not think about getting married. I am content on living my life the way I am.

I think Khalid did a great job. You go boy!

i’m 28 and i’ve noticed that my views towards relationships have changed a lot say since i was 25. although i’m not ready to get married i am tired of going to clubs and trying to pick up women. i don’t think an age range should be placed on marriage. it’s about that individual’s place in life and their views towards the institution.

I was a late bloomer relationship wise and so I never really had a serious relationship until I was 30. I actually met her like a week before my 30th b’day. I was not really looking for a relationship before that I had a lot to catch up on, undergrad and grad school was all work, school and partying up to that point. 2 years in the relationship was perfect and so was the person, the only problem was I was not ready to settle down, I was having too much fun and my career was not where I wanted it to be. It took another 3 years for me to begin to seriously consider the possibility of marriage.

What I have concluded is that it is easier to want to get married than to find someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. That has probably been the flaw in my marriage view, I actually want to be with someone for the the long haul. Truth be told in these times and where I am, NYC it is harder than it seems. I see so many long term relationships (marriages and others) falling apart that leads me to be much more exacting of the women I have dated over the last few years.

There is some pressure that comes along with being 30+ unmarried and w/o children. I am in the place now where one of the first question that women ask is “Are you gay?”. It is not how I would have planned it but the truth is I love my life and as I told one former GF who was on the express plan to marriage and children, I did not wait this long, constructing the kind of life I want to open it up to someone who adds brings very little of what I need to the table.

Things I thought I needed in a wife/mother to my children are not what I know I now need. I work in a sort of controlled chaos and I don’t need the same at home and I never want to be one of thse husbands who want to be anywhere rather than home. I guess in someways my experience has jaded me to the beauty of marriage and children but I feel no need to create another dysfucntional family with children whose childhood become too hellish for them to develop as stable adults. I owe any kids I may have at minimum a solid 2 parent loving family as the one I grew up in. My parents do not have the greatest relationship but they were willing to work to ensure me and my sibling got the best of what they did have.

This a great topic for a post because I don’t think we talk enough about what it requires to be married with children. We idealize it but we don’t provide people with enough of the day to day detail of what that entails. I am actually great with children, for some inexplicable reason they are drawn to me (I have the same effect on animals) but I promised myself I would never have any without the benefit of a solid relationship first.

I think your mind set changes as you get older because we realize ( women quicker than men in most cases) that our lifetime is limited… chasing women can be fun (hells yea!!) but at the end of the day, what is to be said of it? my boys and i had a convo on this last yr: the chase is great, fun, new booty is interesting but does it get old @ some point? and at what point is that? are we socialized in to believing having the most, baddest, and appealing women makes us alpha males? do we compare ourselves to lions with a bunch of women on our territory? I myself have this same issue… dad, grandad, great grand dad were all players… check that pops still is… he’s bout to be 60 and is showing no signs of letting up…says he never wants to be tied down again (married to moms but didnt work out)…what kind of example is that for me? take in part im grown…married (32) with kids… but i feel like a lion in a zoo… you know he’s wild but occasionally you can see that glint in his eyes… not saying that I want to be single but its a conflict most marriages/relationships go through….all my female friends that aren’t in serious relationships are on the hunt and have it all mapped out without the major piece (that dude) house husband 2.5 kids… and dude hasn’t even materialized yet… my male friends (the ones my age) havent even really considered all that and content w/playing the field….. hence the disconnect between the two… men are sooo focused on finding that diamond in the rough that we throw away so many suitable ones when in fact what we may be in search of we might be able to find or exist… women dont mind finding a suitable one on the other hand and polishing it; cutting and refining it to the point where they feel its what they want… society makes no easier as well… WOMEN! settle down- find a husband- have some kids! MEN! get as much as you can! stay away from the handcuffs of marriage and relationship…when in doubt.. RUN!!!

Welp, I’m 32 and definitely unmarried. And as much as I was always the chick who used to procclaim “I don’t ever want to get married” I have to admit that I turned into the chick with the timeline in her head – whether she liked it or not. Blame it on age, blame it on the fact that I was engaged at the age of 30 and things were looking good.

Things didn’t end up as planned and I am pretty much back to square one. Only difference is, that now I come with tons more baggage and a colorful plethora of issues. Not very attractive in general. But when you’re over 30 it’s a death sentence to your love life. At least I’d like to think so. I could be exaggerating. Who knows. But I am mentally preparing myself for a life alone. Sounds drastic but I’d like to think of it as realistic. No man in his right mind is going to fall head over heels for me now that I am emotionally damaged goods. And no man on earth would propose to me one day and say “I do” the next. Since this however is the only way I am going to remotely consider getting married, I do not see it happening. Not in this life.

I do agree with the different approaches to marriage in regards to gender. Men do have a tendency to one day wake up and decide they want to settle down. Hence they begin their search. A rather faulted approach IMO because it applies even more pressure than the one women use. A man whose first words are “how many kids do you want?” and “are you ready to settle down?” creeps me out. I am sorry. It doesn’t work like that for me – or maybe women in general. We do want to be in love and then consider marriage. With men it seems as if it isn’t about me, Elle, but any suitable woman. Totally interchangeable. Sorry, that’s not good enough for me. You decide you want to get married now and we have to jump? Puhlease!

I think when you turn 30 (or approach it) you gain a better grasp on what you expect out of a partner. You know what will make you happy, and you’re confident. I would love to get married, but I realize that keeping a marriage solid is work– like a 24 hour a day second job. Right now I don’t know if I’m ready for that job. I personally rather be on a 24 hour champagne diet at this point. Still, I do want children, and I want to raise them in a 2 parent home, since that is how I was raised. However, I am not going to get stressed out if it does not happen at a certain age. If I’m not married I am not averse to having a child on my own.

I’m with Dewan Gibson on this one. Marriage is not the be all and end all for me. It’s not a yardstick by which I measure my life. If I happen to meet someone and feel that it’s the appropriate thing to do–cool. Otherwise, I can and do find my personal fulfillment elsewhere.

Most of my friends are already married. Very few of them happily. But they all tell me they wish that they could switch places with me or remind me not to rush it and enjoy my life.

Let me be clear about this. I’m not afraid commitment. I’m not afraid of marriage. I just don’t see it as a necessity.

I love this topic already and have only read the first few sentences. *excited dance*

I think some people look at marriage differently when they turn 30 but not all. I’m 34, and recently single (never married). I honestly never saw myself getting married when I was younger, even now I’m not sure that it’ll happen, but if it doesn’t, I’m cool with it. I only thought about marriage once, with my most recent ex…he was the type of man I could marry because of the bond and chemistry we shared. But I don’t think folks should put a timeline on it. If you want kids you can raise while you’re still young you can always have a kid… you can always adopt, don’t make “children” give you a timeline to determining your happiness.

A lot of guys I know are just like the author said…they realize, “man my boys are getting married and I don’t want to be the old man in the club”…so many guys I personally know either “wife” the girl they are currently with (who they feel is decent enough, may not be head over heels for though), otherwise they go out and look and the first girl that “falls for them head over heels” they marry…very few guys I know marry out of love in their 30s. Women tend to want to marry the guy they fall in love with…regardless of economic status…though I do know some women who will hold out to find their “Mr. Perfect” and then try their hardest for him to put a ring on it, but usually end up being alone anyway.

I do feel that society does kind of push women to get married before their eggs dry up…and that when a woman is in her 30-40s and have never been married and have no kids people think something is wrong with her…but why can’t she possibly just want to be accomplished first? Or why does she have to be a failure or there be something wrong with her if she’s single? Maybe it is the dude… not always the case but definitely sometimes the case.

I rather be single and in love…

Liked the piece but Khalid you seemed to focus more on the women…you should share more about the brothers.

chalk this up also to a liberty we now have that we abuse. it was only a couple of hundred years ago that getting married for people of color was illegal and in order to be “married” the process involved a broom, not the state. now, like voting, we take that right for granted. can i have my family without a husband? sure can. but i choose not to. FYI – no judgment on anyone else’s choices btw.

I’m 24 and although I am not looking to get married in the near future, the thought has crossed my mind. Most of my gf are in their 30s and I do see in them a bigger urge to settle down. I understand them, whether we like it or not, for women who wish to have children, marriage included or not, there is a BIOLOGICAL clock that starts ticking when you turn 30. Some will say what about in vitro, medicine has made it easier, but bottom line is… IT IS WAY MORE DIFFICULT. One of my mom’s best friend has been single and is still single now, she’s 53 yrs old with a bf and wishes she had had kids when she could. Her only option now is adopting and it is more difficult to adopt as a single parent… I just think it’s sad. So for all of you who (think they) don’t want kids, I just hope you never change your mind (even 20-30 yrs from now when your looks have faded and everybody else has their kids and/or grand kids), cause it might be too late…

Now when it comes to marriage, and when I say marriage I am talking more broadly about the concept of having a life long partner. I think that we are in a society of consumption, where we have been accustomed to want everything now and just the way we want it. People have a lot of illusions about marriage, they think marriage is supposed to bring happiness (quick), that is their expectation, and they also think it is going to happen naturally. FALSE. Marriage is not the key to Happiness. The key to happiness is you. How many times have I heard about a couple divorcing/separating because the male/female said ” I wasn’t happy anymore”. When I hear that I just shake my head. What is that supposed to mean? Let’s think about the concept of happiness for one second. Is happiness an everlasting state of mind? No. Do our personal expectations leading to happiness change with time? Yes. So how can we go into marriage/R-ship and think we are going to be happy forever and then be really disappointed? Marriage/R-ships require work, patience, dedication, yeah sort of like a job. So you may wonder, if it’s like that then why get into it in the first place?
It is my personal opinion, but I think we marry to anticipate the future, at least I will. As of now I feel fearless, there are so many things in life I wanna explore. But 10-15 years from now, my life will be pretty much set and my opportunities career-wise, R-ship wise, and life-wise period will have decreased; therefore, I will have developed a desire for things such as a R-ship, children, a family. So while I am in my “prime”, I want to and I think it is better to start investing in my future needs, so yeah although I am having fun for the most part, I am keeping my eye open for a potential life partner.

Last, the stigma of the unmarried 30 year old woman. It is a heartbreaking unfair and yet so common “double standard” especially in traditional/conservative cultures. When a woman passes 30, everybody’s like:
- What’s wrong with her?
- Is she a Lesbian? (not that I think there’s something wrong with that)
I honestly have no solution for it, but it is based on the fact that “women can only fully flourish and accomplish themselves through the family”. I think it is true for women, but it is also true for men. When we are young (<45-55), it might not matter so much. But in our older days, wouldn't you want your kids (or any kids) to come visit you when you are in a retirement home, or take care of you if you become sick? For those of you thinking I will have made enough money to have premium services take care of me, or my spouse will take care of me… What if she's dead? What if she's sick too? Even if you have money, people you pay can never take care of you the way people who love you will, trust me on this.
SO my last word is anticipate the future!

(Sorry I know it was a long post)

All marriages are(or should be) is deciding to make a life long commitment to another person you truly love(because for me true love is something you take to the grave) and declaring it to the world officially. If people are making life long commitments to people your not happy with just to say you did it is dumb.

I dont think there’s the same push on ladies to get married now as was 30 years ago.

Do you feel people look at love and marriage differently once they hit 30? What’s the difference between how men look at marriage vs. women? How does that change with age? Do you agree that men don’t start thinking about long-term commitments until they get older?

i think people look at love, marriage, career, life, etc. differently once they hit 30. 30 is this landmark where you cross from young adult into just adult. people begin feeling unaccomplished and immature. i’m only 24, but i don’t plan to feel unaccomplished and immature until 36 at the earliest. that’s my adult age. until then, i’m a young adult so no adult life crises for me until then. i definitely agree with you or whatever commenter pointed out that women are looking for a commitment throughout dating while men are running from said commitment until they begin to feel foolish for not being mature enough to settle down (i.e. “it’s time”). i reject both those norms. i don’t think women are actively hunting commitment like rabid beasts, but i also just think we’re not afraid of commitment. as much as people complain about women looking for perfect mates, i think it’s just the opposite. when men say they’re scared about settling with the wrong person, i think for many it translates into “any less than perfect that i can possible ever in life find” while women are trained to love their men and all his crust. so i feel like women love through imperfections and men love around them and that accounts for the difference in fear/hesitancy of commitment.

Does society “train” women to obsess over being married by a certain age?

i think so but there IS a biological need to marry young and pop out kids. we just can’t get around that fact so the pressure does make sense because people aren’t usually applying general pressure- they’re applying specific pressure for kids so it kinda makes sense. however, we need to start pressuring these late-time settlers to adopt older kids if their biological alarm clock has already gone off. so many older kids (especially black boys over the age of 7- least adopted group) need homes. there’s never a pressure to get married or give up the dream of kids when we have SO many already here and waiting on us to do something. i have to admit that i’m REALLY excited about marriage mostly because i can’t wait to adopt. it’s daunting when i think about the psychological barriers and roadblocks but once we make it through that, it’s gonna be awesome. and i totally don’t care if i’m seeing world through rose-colored glasses because i’m pretty sure that the man i marry with the same commitment to adopt as i have will look at the world through the same glasses and we’ll build our own little rose-colored world. *dreamy sigh*

Fellas, are you turned off by women like that?

i’ve clearly gone off topic onto adoption, but i do think many black men will be turned off by my non-negotiable adoption clause. i can’t put my finger on why i think black men particular as a group are more averse to adoption than any other group, but i have a strong feeling i’ll be dipping into other ethnic pools for my husband. ahh well. i know that i could fall in love with and marry a non-black man. i know that i could NOT be happy or content with never adopting.

Do you feel as if a lot of people are more focused on getting married and having kids than actually finding someone to fall in love with?

YES! and that is so unfortunate. i feel like you fall in and out of love throughout marriages- you go through stages. but you best believe that we better be in the “in love” stage throughout our courtship, early marriage, and beginning of raising kids. i hope the “out of love” stages where we might have drifted apart, gotten too comfortable, or lost ourselves are brief and extremely infrequent but i assumed that the thing that got you through those points was foundation/memories of the beginning in love stages and possible future in love. if there’s no love to begin with, how the hell do you make it through the rest? we’re not in these quaint times and environments where i feel like a gradual love would grow over time (e.g. arranged marriages) because there are so many competing demands for energy and time that the foundation HAS to be there from jump. ::shudder at the thought of getting married just to do so::

Would you rather be single and in love or married just because?

i’d rather be single and in love. HOWEVER, i’m definitely not one of these women who will be engaged for 10 years and whatnot. it doesn’t take that long to know you’re in love with someone and if you’re waiting for a magic sign that i am the perfect one to spend the rest of your life with, it’s not going to happen. it’s cliche but there are no guarantees. and it doesn’t matter how long you’re in a relationship with someone, there will never be a guarantee that it will last forever so lack of that guarantee is not a good excuse to avoid marriage. people who are afraid of marriage and the possibility of it not working out don’t have the same spirit about life that i do, so it would be a fundamental difference in our outlooks on life that would drive us apart – the marriage issue would just be the thing to probably bring that difference to my attention.

Very good topic for discussion. It’s so necessary in our community. (The Conversation is actually next on my list of books to read for 2010)

As a 32 year old woman, this topic is a little touchy. Mostly, because I’ve been programmed by society and some old school grandparents and family members to believe that you were supposed to have and be and do “this” by a certain age. As of lately, I’ve been trying to deprogram myself from this mode of thinking, but I can’t lie, it’s hard. BUT, the one thing I can say about my life is that I’m happy with it. I have a great career at a great company. I have good friends and health. To have the husband that I’m in love with in addition to some children would be an overflowing blessing in my life because I could share those good times that I have now with them. These are not things that I need. These are things that I desire, because I come from a family that has marriages that last. My grandparents just celebrated their 59th wedding anniversary last week. My parents were together for 20+years. I have lots of aunts & uncles that have been together for 30+years.

I believe marriage is what you make it. It’s just like anything else you work at or don’t work at. I always say, you need to work on your relationship/marriage like you work at your job/career. When something’s not right at the job, you are working on it to make it better and you’re doing it fast so you don’t lose it. (go figure,lol)

I definitely want to marry a man that is in love with me as I am with him. When times get tough (’cause they will), when the looks have gone, and when the cute things they used to do are now annoying as hell, what do you have to “go on”? Hopefully, love. My grandparents are a prime example of what marriage “is” to me. They have been through it and back again and I know it’s nothing but love that keeps them pushing forward. (it’s not that it’s cheaper to keep her,lol)

One of my pet peeves is the way some men think about marriage…(hence the picture with the ring and the cuffs). Marriage doesn’t have to be that way (lock down). If you feel like it will be that way for you, quite honestly, I think you need some therapy. All marriage should be is a legal extension of the relationship you are currently in with your sig. other with some other BENEFITS. (but Ans-that’s a whole other discussion!)

To end this, I fully agree with the guest blogger on a lot of the points made but especially in the way we (men & women) think about marriage and each other. Once we can get past/remove those negative connotations society has attached to it, then I think we can move forward. Otherwise, it’s always going to be an issue.

I’m 29… Had two serious relationships.. Would like to be married, but no pressure… Thought I’d be married by 28, dont know why, just picked the #… Definently want kids.. A lot has changed since 25, ive flipped flopped back and forth regarding the risk vs. reward of marriage, and to me, clearly the rewards win, although the risks had me in my 20’s… i think we think too much about relationships, they will all be works in progress, so unless your in one, your just hypothesizing… Love is work, I’ve learned that, through building lasting friendships… Life is not ideal, its life, and it taught me that…

Love/Marriage is a lot like selecting a college, prepare early, do your research, visit, send off your best app to the places you have the best chance of admittance and a few you have no chance, pick the one that makes your heart jump and go hard because dropping out isn’t an option. Sure there many schools you can be, but you’ll only be at one, give it your best, learn all you can and make memeries on every turn because it should be the best time of your life.

@ Elle

I’m 29 years old soon to be 30 , was engaged, gave up my rent control apt in NYC ( clutching heart), moved in w ex fiance and moved out 7 months later.

I’m currently single, paying higher rent for smaller space , and have never been happier. I want to invite you over to my perspective. My ex didn’t do anything crazy and was far from a bad guy, just not my guy.I’m so glad that we didn’t wait until we were married to live together, I would’ve never realized that he had archaic gender role views among other things.

Now I’m dating and having a great time doing so ( butterflies feel amazing) , hanging out with my girls, planning solo vacations, and reconnecting with me in my own apartment decorated the way i like w/o anyone elses input. Elle, I just think 30 years old is too young to be headed downhill ( not even half an average lifespan).

I just let all my old relationship ” battle wounds” heal look at the scar occasional and smile because it represents another dodge bullet and open my heart to new people at the right time. I think you’re wiser as a result , perhaps more cautious , and now all you need to do is take that leap of faith again – it’s still a rush.

I’m 27 yrs of age, and I’ve been in a relationship with this young man for three yrs now. We have a son together and he lives with me and my children. He’s been married before and divorced of course. However, now i would like to get married and I just don’t believe that he wants to. We talk about it, but nothing ever happens…. And i told him that if we’re not married by the time I’m 30, that i will leave him…. And I guess I’m just wondering should I wait, or should I leave now? I’ve never been married so this is all new for me…. So, some opinions would be very helpful and oh so much appreciated…

I’m nearly 30 and am definetly dating with the end result hopefully being marriage / long term commitment. I’ve semi retired my bad boy , spontaneous, moves way too fast , adrenaline rush, anything goes, rebel magenet. My relationships are no longer about just having fun and not caring about tommorow * deep sigh*

I’ve started to let go because my family’s been askihg questions about my future and i’ve realized that there is a younger me on the market and my clock is ticking , not loudly but ,enough for me to realize that i’m an adult. I don’t want to be an old PTA mom . I’d like to travel extensively with my husband and his viagra in my mid 50’s. We’ll send postcards to our kids advising them to seize the day while planting seeds for the future.

Perhaps Men see it differently but the next chapter in life begins after 30……

@Roxy If he marries you out of being given an ultimatum over genuinely wanting to do so, how long do you think you will stay together? I can only speak for myself but I absolutely hate ultimatums, so if it’s that important to you, you may have to make a decision between he and marriage, which is most important to you?

Are your fine, single friends doing well with the dating pool? You may want to give this a large amount of thought because I just had a woman post me a page long comment on my blog expressing her regret at driving a man away over the same thing. If the ultimatum leads to him leaving, will you regret it 5 years down the line when he marries someone else? Are you wife material in his eyes? Way too many questions for a decision based on an ultimatum, that right there is one of the worst things a woman can bring to a guy.

I, at the ripe age of 35 believe that men and women do view marriage differently. I personally do not believe in the institution of marriage. The tables turn, the language and needs of both people involved blur…before the marriage, the couple were loving, open, maybe not so demanding; however, the title then refocuses (her/his) views of what a husband / wife should be doing which causes demands / ultimatums to be made. In addition, the lack of compromise, etc…

Black women have this need to be taken care of (don’t get me wrong, not all of us), but some were raised to get the man that will afford you the luxury of being the house wife, with kids, house, dogs, and car… while he works hard.

Meanwhile, you have the next group…. the worker bee… she doesn’t want anything from a man, that she cannot obtain herself besides a “real” dick. She is caught up in her career and the financial gratification of success and she does not want to be with someone “lower” than her versus encouraging a strong black man to excel in whatever his dreams are.

Man, you aren’t exempt… many men / boys are caught up on looks that they overlook the queen that is his destiny. He wants the light skin, long haired chick so his “boys” will look instead of the plain Jane, that will encourage him and help him in all aspects of the relationship until death do you part or he wants the VIDEO ho, dark skin sister with locks with the big butt, who hangs at the club every weekend with her girls and not thinking about settling down seriously.

Point blank, a man’s reality is not a female’s reality.

I would rather be single and In Love….the problem is people forget who is driving the car….GOD is…not him, not her, but GOD. When people accept the fact that GOD is in the front seat of your relationships then things will become quite easier to deal with. I just turned 30 yesterday and for me at this point in Life I am not in a place where I want to be. I have decided to “GET FREE” from all of the things that were keeping me in a place of unhappiness. I ended a 2 1/2 year relationship that I knew wasn’t going anywhere. We have to stop thinking”ok if I give it a little longer maybe it will get better”. We have to set Expectations and Boundaries for our relationships, not just intimate but with co-workers, family and friends.. GET FREE from the stress let God lead the way. NEVER force a marriage just because you feel its time you need to be married. I have more to say but this is already to long…Peace and Love y’all….

I’m 29 years old abt to be 30 in Nov. I have two kids a 10 years old, and a 7 years old, and I been with my 33 years old boyfriend for 8 years.

I work in a office were every other month somebody is getting married, and talking abt rings. I find myself confused because I don’t know if I want to be marry, but at the same time should I.
Should I be worried that I haven’t even gotten a ring yet.

I dnt want to be that woman who make a big deal abt all that getting married stuff but at the same time I want it. What do you do with somebody who you been living and sleeping with for 8 years marry them right. I’m already playing the wifey roll, why not validate it.

Then again sometimes I’m looking for ways to escape this relationship because I want to put myself out there because I fell that I lost out on my 20’s because I was stressed out with kids and relationship drama. Now that I’m abt to be 30 and I have my life together, I promise myself that I will live my 30’s stress free and live it to the fullest.

So what do I do, stay in the relationship because it’s the right thing to do, or walk away?

okay. at 35 i can remember what i thought at 25 when i was in a serious relationship. yeah, she had potential but I wasn’t ready. No regrets.
now, i see things a lot differently. Marriage is about commitment and not in the oh we in love type-which is part of it but not all of it. Just like loving another is part of it. It’s also part of helping another person be their best like that other person helps you be your best. It’s about goals and aspirations. it’s about how you want to live-both of you. but finding that other person-hell THATS the crap shoot.
okay on to the ?’s
Do you feel people look at love and marriage differently once they hit 30?
yep. clock’s ticking and all your friends are doing it.

What’s the difference between how men look at marriage vs. women?
men-not me- think it’s either settling or a trap if you found one that’s close but not “perfect”. there is no such thing as perfect, there is right for you or not right for you and then there’s a whole lot of potential. Again, you gotta commit cause it’s easy to be on to the next one.

How does that change with age?
the older you get, the better you know yourself and hopefully can better articulate what it is you want and can deal with.

Do you agree that men don’t start thinking about long-term commitments until they get older?
No. when you find the right one-or one of the right ones- you know it. that’s when you the church bells start ringing in your head.

Does society “train” women to obsess over being married by a certain age?
Yep. but it’s a reflection of biology in that sense.

Fellas, are you turned off by women like that?
depends on the woman. depends on what she admits and cannot. Depends on how well she can listen, advise and take advice.

Do you feel as if a lot of people are more focused on getting married and having kids than actually finding someone to fall in love with?
hell yeah. some folks just want it to “look” good rather than “be” good.

Would you rather be single and in love or married just because?
single and in love all day. How is a marriage a healthy relationship otherwise?

What did you think of Khalid’s guest post overall?
good post bro. do it again.

my end note is this:
this summer i attended a Sikh wedding. It was dope. Best thing about it was the Sikh philosophy on the purpose of marriage which is NOT the one held by say the Roman Catholic church. The Sikh philosophy is this: the husband and the wife marry to help each other become closer to God.

interesting concept-to help each other, to live your married life as such.

I read the site a lot, but my first time commenting. Im not and really wouldnt say fast approaching it either (24), but Ive had thoughts of settling down for a little while now. I have a son, and his mother and I are not together. I dont necassarily want to get married, but I do want to settle down. The reason im so against marriage is because most of the time now days they end in divorce. Nobody deserves half of anything i make. It reminds me of michael jordans ex wife. She didnt shoot not one jump shot and walked away with 184 million dollars. But, i digress, the reasons and the way women and men approach marriage are totally different. Yes, we (men) wake up one day and are ready to settle down.

Blah,blah,blah…finally finished reading the new comments…

Good stuff… @ Mz Kim… *sigh* This is gonna suck, but if the relationship is good then stay… You only see the ‘ring’… life is different behind closed doors.

I gotta admit the comment about ppl (*cough* men) needing to see shrinks to get over issues about getting married is true… seriously we all got issues but grow up…man up…whateva.

Its actually pretty sad, because in the end alot of our children need us to act like adults and though we are not fictional. we still are their reality…
We gotta stop the cycle.

Damn Khalid. Great post and even more impressing is the wonderful conversations that you have prompted. I’m proud/happy for you and what you’re doing. Can’t wait to connect soon.

Hmmm…it saddens me to have this conversation. You would think that after all the people who have lived on this earth and the life experience that we have each been able to amass that we could come up with an answer to this question.

I think its true, that men and women are both looking for the same thing. The reason so many of us (brown skinned people) don’t have what we want is because 1) deep down we don’t believe that we deserve it and 2) we are too scared to do the kind of communication that’s needed to make it happen.

My perspective is that so many of us are trying our best not to get hurt or worse portraying ourselves as someone that we’re not – these acts create bullsh*t which gets in the way of our creating and sustaining the loving connections that we’re looking for.

Now, that said, I would agree with your assessment that men and women differ in the way we approach relationships. Women, like me, look at dating as an interview for the position of husband. It can be a fun, frustrating, gut-wrenching process. Men, on the other hand, decide they want to get married and tend to settle for whatever’s available, (correct me if I’m wrong – just my perspective) which is why I think that love is all about timing. Women like men, can probably fall in love with anybody so long as they are human, meet other minimum requirements, possess a decent sense of humor or some other quality to make up for their unique faults and are looking for the same type of relationship seriousness that we are.

If the timing is right and people know how to communicate explicitly enough to sustain their relationship I do think that the “Huxtable Syndrome” or “Happily Ever After” or whatever else you want to call it is a valid hope and dream to long for. Us, women, have not been brain washed to believe in something that doesn’t exist. Nor are we the only ones who want it – you men want it too – which is why you even have these relationship questions to begin with because you are all (just like us women) looking for the beautiful, fated, much talked about happily ever after.

It saddens me though that people think that it’s a dream to be dismissed just because so many people haven’t experienced it. It reminds me of being a kid when it was cool to say that Santa didn’t exist. It’s in fashion or mature, at our age, to now think that relationship bliss is a story concocted by a network tv show writer. I’m a big proponent of art imiitating life and just refuse to release my hope of its existence, especially since I have met couples who have and are experiencing and living their happily ever after.

I’m sure that some of you might even have experienced a moment, a day, a month or even a year in your relationships where it was the best thing that ever happened to you, a dream come true and like a fable brought to life. I think the better question is to figure out how to stretch those moments with the person you love so that your happily every after becomes a reality.

At 30, you have to accept the fact that you are not a kid anymore. Thats the age you really need to start building if you haven’t already(retirement, equity in a house, starting a family)

Its the point where if you are more than 60 percent sure that having a family is something you MIGHT want to do, you need to go for it because the window is closing and if you change you mind later, it may be too late to make it happen.

The problem with people today is they are dragging out adolesence untill they are 30+ Still “talking” to folks instead of dating, trying to sew oats past the harvest.

With this prolonged adolesence comes prolonged immaturity and like most immature adolesencents, we can’t see the forest for the trees and are unable to fathom a time when we don’t want to shake it up in the club, stay out till 5am, end up with a different person everynight, and go home to play video games in an empty apartment. When we don’t turn heads anymore and when are swag and game can’t overcome the budding beer gut and receding hair-line.

Unfortunately, for many, by the time we snap out of it and realize that we are adullts, many opprutunities have passed us by because of our deluded peter pan/toysrus-kid fantasies.

There are a lot of people who are happily married in this world. They allowed themselves to grow up, develop meaningful, lasting relationships, compromise, weather the storms, and love even when it hurts or isn’t always exiting, sparkling and new. And they are not alone.

I’ve seen the desperation and the depression of those who chose to bypass real love and commitment to develop a super carreer or drown in the singles pool when they realize what they are missing and it ain’t pretty.

i find this to be a hit at home topic for so many of us. My theory based on my experience, is that most of us are not able to communicate and sacrifice certain things we so call need! or want!! We need to look at things realistically for our own life.

If life was perfect we would be born to a loving married couple, live a wonderful childhood, get great grades in order to gain a scholarship, get a degree and start a business in our course of study, meet someone who is already everything you want, get married, have kids, retire wealthy and pass it on to your kids to do the same.

I know that sounded ridiculous but thats how most of us think it works. We want to achieve one thing at a time and then expect to find someone to marry after your done with everything else. It’s kind of like a father who wasn’t around when their child was young trying to come around and be a father when their grown. Its not impossible but usually it takes time and patience is short because they are use to being without.

Thats why we have to self evaluate and determine whats good for us based on our own life. I’m not saying you have to marry the person who proposes but you should weigh the options carefully. This could be someone who can help you achieve your goals. You should just communicate and let them know your feelings and ask for theirs.

Another thing is that a lot of men can’t get past the sex thing while a lot of women can’t get past the money thing. Men want personal freaks while women want personal cake daddies and don’t take it too literal. That is the most descriptive way I could say it.

I believe everyone needs that special person in their lives at some point. To me marriage should be forever. Your communication and commitment should be unquestionable. If your not there I see nothing wrong with being together until you can or can’t work it out.

I’m 30, don’t have kids, never been married, turned down proposals 4 times now…(not the right guy(s) for me) and I’ve never thought of it as a “negative (stigma) people have about women who are still single and don’t have any children.” Well, is it better to be single and have children? Is me birthing children really that important for society to validate me? How is it their business anyway?
I think most people just happen to have had several serious relationships by age 30, and realize what they want in a relationship.
I was never a girly girl and never thought of my relationships as aiming “toward marriage.” I was having fun..and that’s what mattered most to me. Eventually if dude proposed, I’d seriously consider if I could spend the rest of my life with him…and the answer was always no. Until I met my current bf, whom I cannot wait to spend the rest of my life with. It has nothing to do with age- maybe through my past relationships I’ve learned what I want/don’t want in a partner and just happened to hit the goldmine this time. Just because I’ve hit a certain age does not mean I will SETTLE. I will never settle for someone- nor do I want someone settling for me.
I cannot answer how men view love/marriage because I am not one…and I cannot really answer a generalized question about how women view love/marriage because I don’t happen to think like “normal women” (according to friends.) I can tell you how I veiw love and marriage: It is a must for me that love come before marriage. You don’t just get married because you’ve hit a certain age or because he slipped up and busted nut in ur gut lol- the only reason to get married (to me) is that you love the person and want to be with that person for the rest of your life. I know it might sound very naiive but I refuse to settle for anything less
Again, I don’t think that changed with age- it changed when my bf and I found each other. I never wanted kids- I could’ve cared less on HOW I got married- or even IF I got married-I was content being single- but now that I have found that special someone, I have switched it to ultra girly and obsses over every little thing. (Cliche I KNOW dangit!)
Also, I’ve never been one to get pressured into societal rules. (My mother said I my career choices at 5-7 yrs was construction worker, fireman, G.I.Joe….Now it may be acceptable in some countries… but in India- people looked at my parents like “what in the hell ya teachin this girl?!”?) So the idea of being single for the rest of my life because I didn’t find THAT person, was fine with me. Not having kids too, was fine with me.
Now don’t get me wrong, I know a lotta friends who got married for all the wrong reasons- and I take notes watching those situations unfold. But to answer your question- “Would you rather be single and in love or married just because?” Of course I’d rather be single and in love than be married for all the wrong reasons- I doubt anyone in their right mind would pick the other option-but NWSO, one can also be in love and married…it’s just a matter of holding out till you find the right one =)

I am 40 ish and in my late twenties I had that “gotta get married and have kids” mind set. i did so in my mid thirties. I have no regrets, he passed. But is is funny, I am more intent on having a partner or companion in life. Focused on the who not the what. Life experiences changes you, wisdom comes. I think that many black folks do not marry because they have an unrealistic expectation about what marriage will be like. Happily ever after. If you have a good friend that you have known for years, take a look at that person. They have you back and you have had good times, and they understand you and accept you. Marriage is like having a best friend. It is not all magical, just soild and real.

I’ve been laying in the cut seeing what y’all had to say because I have thoughts on this subject for sure. It’s a topic which needs discussion in today’s society, as it has changed in the last 20 years as many of you said. And quite frankly makes me worry about where we will be in another 20 years with this increasing emergence of individualism and breakdown of family structures. Now that I have read all the comments tho I want to stop now and simply say- I cosign NOVANOVA 150%!

I am a 35 year old female with two children ages 14 and 5. I have been dating someone for almost 5 years now. I am definitely ready for marriage or at least a ring, but he seems to feel like we are “coasting” along fine. He has promised me a ring and speaks of the future, but I am at the point where words don’t cut it for me.He says since day one he has heard the “M” word from me and my family. My dilemma is this: Has it not been long enough for him to figure out if I am the one? We don’t have any kids together. We have been together since my 5 yr old was about 10 months old. She calls him daddy cause he is all she knows.

I feel like marriage is the next step for us. He does not have any children and I know he at least wants one, and at my age time is crucial. I feel like a man should at this stage of almost 5 years of courtship should be ready for me to be his wife. Getting the benefits of a wife without the legal commitment bothers me and makes me feel like I am settling for less than I deserve. I am employed, and working on my Doctorate degree so my ducks are in a row. I know for women in their 30’s or reaching 30 the symbol of marriage means complete. I do believe that a woman’s perspective does change at 30. At 30 you have settled more into who you are and know what you want out of life. What’s a girl to do?

Yes, I do feel that the closer you get to 30 your perception of relationship changes. I will be 28 this year, and I have been with the same person since I was 21.

I totally agree with you that when women fall in love we are ready to get married (I am there now.) Thats the way is should be. Why on earth would you marry someone you just like okay?

Sometimes I wonder when it will happen for me and my boyfriend. It is getting to that 7 yr point now and sometimes I think why even bother?

Don’t get me wrong I love him with all my heart. I don’t want to be one of those people who get married for a year or two, then divorce after we have been dating and living together for 7+ years…not happening!

There should be a push for men to go ahead and make the move toward marraige. I am a very traditional girl (maybe even stubborn) I believe the man should ask the woman to marry him-not the other way around. I don’t want to wait forever either. I also am not one for giving ulitmatiums either.

I think there should be a mutal agreement between both male and female on the marraige. Don’t force them into it and if they don’t want it- I guess you could move on. (You are bound to fall in love again. Right?) I just think forcing one person to marry you when they really don’t want to will cause more problems in the long run.
Now, in my situation- he has not formally asked me, but has said we will get married. (Go ahead, call me boo boo the fool….go ahead…I’ve heard it before.)

You are totally right also about the Cosby Show Syndrome- I used to be totally guilty until I realized…”Sheri…shit don’t work that way.” The closer a women gets to 30 without being married or not having kids stll brings on a stigma of being an “OLD MAID”…who wants that?

My boyfriend and I decided several years ago to try to have a child-even though we arent married. I did get pregnant, but lost the pregnancy. Trust me I think daily that if I don’t have a child soon my time is running out.

Time. We think we have all the time in the world for everything, but we really don’t know what could happen down the road. Basically, Make a mutal decision-marry or not, kids or not, you got to do what will make you happy. Now here’s a thought: “How will we view relationships in our 40’s?

@Nicky B

There is a reason that he has not taken the step but maybe it hasn’t been said. I have been with the same woman for 8 years and we are not married. We love each other and I know she wants to get married but I have issues with some things she does. The thing that is stopping me is the fact that she is real defensive at times and always wants to be right. I can accept that from anyone other than my WIFE!

To me marriage is about compromise more than anything outside of love. I know it seems small but we can’t even talk about it because she always says” I can’t help how you take things” WTF!! That to me is something I can’t get by cause I’m a Ride or Die person especially when it comes to giving my life to a person.

I have doubts about her because she shows me that herself comes before our relationship and to form a tight bond you sometimes have to sacrifice self also. I also know that you should accept shortcomings also but I know that I can’t come to her with certain things so our bond has holes, so why should I set sail when there is a good chance it might sink?

Talk it out and hopefully you can get the answer and don’t be afraid to look at yourself as well. Theres some things I can do better but I don’t have the benefit of conversing. I hope you do!!

@Sheri

Take control of your life. 7 years is a long time! I don’t think anyone should get married untill at least 25. At 25, you had been together for four years, at that point you should have told him exactly what you want for you life, gave it a year and a half and if there was no ring, moved on.

If you want to be married don’t waste your time on people who are not marriage-minded. You need to have a discussion at the six month mark and let the person know YOUR intentions for YOUR life. You have the right to have a life plan.

This is especially important for women because of the bio-clock. You can very easily miss your window and be forced to spend a bunch of money to adopt or undergo exspensive ivf treatments when you get in the upper 30’s. (if you want children) For men, there is not as much pressure b/c There is not as much stigma in being an older man then there is being an older women in terms of being a marriage prospect. Men can also fathetr children into their 90’s

The decision you made to actively try and have a child with no REAL commitment was insane. It was a bad idea, especially for you and the child. Children are time consuming and expensive, its hard to do it on your own and if he has not put a ring on it in this past 7 years, he pobably never will.

I am in my late twenties and I am definitely working on myself so that I am ready when that special guy comes. I am getting a second degree, I go to church on my own, I am handling my finances and trying to build a savings, I work out, and I’ve have been to counseling to explore the issues that I have. I am constantly striving to be a better me.

Do I want to be married? Yes

Do I think I will get married? Not so sure

But I am preparing myself and lately I have started considering…

Can I just live with a boyfriend for a long period of time and just be willing to fore go the marriage part if we are committed to each other???

Its 2010 things have seriously changed as far as my timeline for marriage.

@ N2Deep:

I totally agree with you in regards to their being some issues present that hinders the relationship to mature into marriage, HOWEVER, how long can someone use that as an excuse? At some point the person with the issue should see that the potential mate is nothing like their concern. And at 4 years it should be plain to see the person for whom they are. I have been down the road of self reflection and looking and CHANGING things that please my companion regardless to if I think they were real issues or not. I am a ride or die person as well. Life is not a fairytale it is a series of problems that hopefully you can workout with your partner. At this point, 35, or at 30 in general I believe that people are who they are and there are no suprises.

Marriage is an institution, and I’m just not that crazy yet.

A man has to have man time, whatever the age. They have to have enough time to date, screw around, and date some more before any woman can think that he will marry them until death do they part. Then there are those men that never grow up some women too for that matter.

The Black family structure has had its ups and downs since way back when. It isn’t anything new. I have never understood the thinking that a two parent home makes for better children. A married couple can have the misfortune of raising the worst neighborhood crackhead just like any single parent can, papers and a ring don’t make things any easier.

A strong family structure can be maintained with one parent. My mother stopped us with a look, and we dare not move. Marriage IMO confuses things. In my home if I say No! its just No! There is no discussion, and no husband to second guess me or ask me why not.

I don’t want to marry and regret that I ever got into the mess. It’s not like you can ask that man to leave because his feet stink. I married him and his stink feet. He is here to stay. Sometimes people don’t show their true colors (selfish, abusive, cheap, lazy) until they have you in a position that you can’t get out of. Marriage is that poistion.

Maybe if I found my love or my love found me then I might change my tune about marriage, but as it stands I don’t see it happening.

I’m free to be me.

@NovaNova… you are right. I think about that constantly. We talk about it. He always assures me it will happen. (I just want to know when.)

On the other hand, I think sometimes people in relationships want to wait and wait for things to be “perfect” to make that move, but in reality when will things ever be perfect.

I am sure that is what is going on with my mate. I think he wants things to be a certain way before he makes the move.

I think that may be the case with a lot of people who are in long relationships. I hear what your saying that I should have had a ring by now, but I guess I am just a fool in love or blinded by love.

An Excuse I know-but yet so true.

It’s been awhile since I commented on this blog (still much love to the honorable NWSO for his brilliant blogs), but Black people and relationships are my favorite topic of discussion. I do have something to say about the alarming statistic about the percentage of kids that are born out of wedlock. We need to call attention as to why this is, which is attributed to the young average age that people, especially people of low income, that are having their first kid (which is 19-20). This definitely affects the way people think about relationships, whether they are under or over 30. Is marriage even an option since it is so common place for people to have things that are traditionally obtained within a marriage (i.e. children, sharing a home together, sharing money, etc) without even being married. I don’t think that people understand the purpose of being married. I also think that people get married for the wrong reasons, financial probably being the main one. We would have to change the way we view marriage in order to increase the presence of married couples.

@ Sheri

Your situation is an age-old scenario and while there are exceptions to the rule, usually after such a long time a wedding is unlikely to happen. But how did they say it in “He is just not that into you”: most of us aren’t the exception. We are the rule.

It doesn’t take a whole day to recognize sunshine. A man who truly wants to spend his life with a woman will make it known. He will claim his territory so to speak. Men are just as emotional as we are when the right buttons are being pushed and they are convinced that the woman in their life is the right one. Actually, quite often men will date a woman for x amount of years and always push off getting married for various reasons. Then one day they meet another woman who sweeps them off their feet, they end the old relationship, jump into a new one with the new lady and boom, 6 months later they get hitched. I’ve seen it happen oh so many times. So I am sorry. I do not buy this “We’ll get married one day”-BS.

One of my closest friends was in your shoes once. Her ex used to always say “We will get married. Just not now.” Did it happen? Nope. They are no longer an item. Had she looked out for her own needs sooner she could have saved herself valuable time.

N2Deep is a prime example. He is with a woman but something about her doesn’t sit well with him. Hence, no proposal. IMO he is wasting her time and should let her go so she can find the man who will love her unconditionally despite her imperfections. But that’s just me.
I don’t understand why people are not honest with each other – especially when they know that their SO wants to get married. Why are they dragging somebody along who isn’t what they want?

Timiing is everything in relationships. I think that marrying in your early twenties is a mistake. You need time to learn about yourself and life.

Also in relationships no one is perfect and people do not make major changes to their makeup/personality. so you have two choices: (1) accept the person as they are or (2) reject the behavior and do not accept. Anything else brings resentment. By accepting there is no expectation of change. You adjust how you respond. For example, my late husband needed to be around people 24-7, which was opposite to me. Try as I may, it was who he was. I realized it and fully accepted it. We set up rules to make it easier for me to deal with and to minimize the intrusion to our household. Folk were always over!!! lol

I do believe it is common for guys to date women for long periods of time, knowing full well that they have no intention of marrying them but not being fully honest. That is why so many of them go on to marry someone else so soon after that relationship ends.

Putting a time limit on ANYTHING is extremely foolish. Women are so pressed to achieve the dream by a “certain age” they forget what is really important. Love. And that is loving yourself first before you can even attempt to love someone else and be held responsible for their heart. I think for some they feel they need to accomplish x,y,z by 30 for status, so they don’t get those looks of pity from their family, friends or strangers, for not being married. This ‘marriage-crazed’ mentality needs to be shifted within society. Look how many end in divorce. Marriage is not a game. It’s a sacred union that’s not to be taken lightly. It is forever. If more women took that into account maybe they would spend a little more time focusing on what makes them happy before trying to find someone else to do the job. What’s wrong with being selfish, focusing on yourself, excelling in your career, traveling, meeting new people, and falling in and out of love until you are ready to settle down? What’s wrong with getting married later in life? I think the ticking of a woman’s biological clock drowns out all good sense. Life needs to unfold organically. You cannot rush to start a new chapter when chapter one has not even been written yet. Not only are you cheating yourself, you are cheating the characters in your story.

Theres no age limit on knowing when you are READY.

” most of us aren’t the exception. We are the rule.”

lol @ Elle!

*Good movie quote!*

@elle

I don’t mind being prime but not of a bad example. I don’t think I am wasting her time and if so she is wasting mine as well.

I think that a relationship can’t reach it’s full potential if both people can’t communicate. I struggle with myself at staying sometimes but I know if we get married before the issues got resolved It would push me away.

Like I said we have kids and we have been together this long with the issue so why throw everything away because we are not married. I am the ride or die where I will stay until I have no more to give. Every relationship has some things to overcome and ours is dealing with communication.

I know how she feels and kind of understand her communication problems. She is the oldest of 7 and doesn’t know who her real father is while the other siblings have the same father. Her Dad and Mom separated and they grew up in a bad home enviroment. Her sisters have kids but not taking care of them and her mom is on Dialysis, with 2 sisters plus the grandkids(7) living with her and they all look to us for money and rides and everything. I think that puts a lot of pressure on her and she is use to keeping things to herself because they always call on her with their problems. I feel being close to her family makes it hard for us but I’m not going to leave her because of that.

I just don’t feel getting married just because is the right answer for now but I am being patient and trying to be there for her. She has hurt my feelings so many times but I’m Still Standing giving her the benefit of the doubt because all I can count on is what I feel. She doesn’t really talk to me about certain things because she knows what I’m going to say or do.

I hope you will allow someone in your life that won’t leave you because of one or two things.

@Nickey B

Excuses are usually some made up BS but reasons will always be there until they are fixed. It’s not always about a person changing sometimes its being in a position too see things how they really are.

When people first get together you so filled with the desire to see them and thats pretty much where it is. You just like being around them and then the more things you do together the more you learn about a peron.

I’ll give you two examples; You meet a guy and yall go out four or five times and each time brother is fresh fitted but when you start hanging at his house you find out he wearing his brothers shit!!! You gonna have a slightly different outlook on him even if you don’t say anything. Another example is you meeting someone at a good time in their life where you have fun and everythings good but then comes along somethings that he use to do coming out at year 3 or 4 because he ran into someone he use to run with.

I feel like you are open with him but he may not be as open to you. I have to guess at my situation because my SO doesn’t really tell me certain things. It’s frustrating as hell but I’m a true believer of making sure I don’t give in because you might get what you don’t really want. You got a lot of time invested so think about it and stay how you are!LoL I wish mine were as willing to look in the mirror as you and I.

@N2Deep

“I hope you will allow someone in your life that won’t leave you because of one or two things.”

In all honesty, I do not think people like that exist. At least they are not the majority. Folks end relationship because of the dumbest and most insignificant of reasons every day. Which brings me back to my quote “we’re not the exception, we’re the rule. Ergo: why would I out of allll people meet somebody who is different from the masses. Unlikely. “Ride or die” is a dieing breed.

I must have overread the fact that you have children with your SO. That definitely changes the dynamics.
However, while I understand how hurtful her lack of communication is you described that you see why she is the way she is. So why not leave it at that and just accept it? Apparently that’s the way she is and doesn’t know how snap out of it. I mean people do not change their patterns unless these same patterns become unbareable for them. And we all know we can’t change others, only ourselves. Maybe you have a better chance at just accepting her and changing the way you deal with it?

I know I sometimes don’t tell my SO everything simply because I don’t want to bother him with my BS. Life is stressful as is, no need putting my burdens on somebody else when he/she can’t do anything about it anyways. I just “suck it up” and deal with it on my own. Is that the right approach? Heck no. I am aware of that. I know I shouldn’t decide what info my SO can or can’t handle but should let him determine that. But I do not do it to hurt anyone or to exclude anyone. In my mind I am looking out for him by not bothering him. From the sounds of it she may have similar reasons for not telling you. Maybe she doesn’t want to burden you.

Just saying

Well I am 28 male who isn’t married. I would like to be someday. Im all for settling down especially when you meet someone who is looking for the same. That’s the hard part finding someone who is at that point in their life as well. when both people aren’t is when you have the issues and complications and The Cosby affect is real I got my education out of the way B.A and Masters and thought it would be smooth sailing after that but its not . It’s an unpredictable road you have maneuver and hopefully at the end of the trip your desired destination is reached. Let him be in your driver seat he knows exactly where he is going. Sometimes we are the ones standing in the way of our happiness bc we think we know it all.

I don’t think society so much “trains” women to obsess over being married by a certain age, but I do think that it trains them not to worry about it and just have fun, enjoy life, etc. counter to their internal clocks. It’s the alarm that goes off which is what then obsesses them, and some may regret having fooled around all those years, rather than focusing on founding and building a serious long-term relationship with someone, or that one guy they deem special. I’m definitely one that’s turned off by being rushed. I do feel as if a lot of people are more focused on getting married and having kids, unfortunately, than actually finding someone to fall in love with. Finally, I’d rather be single and in love, than married just because.

I don’t think marriage is “different” for men and women, more than I think sex is any different for them. It all depends on the individual(s) and their values, though I must say, that some women probably tie it into their race against the biological clock…

@ Elle

I don’t want it to seem like I’m cyber-stalking you, but your posts tend to resonate with me. You’re hard to ignore (you do comment quite a bit, let’s admit).

First, I’m sorry to hear about your failed engagement. On the issue of baggage and all of that, I just mentioned the same in a previous post: http://www.nakedwithsockson.com/2010/01/08/how-do-you-handle-a-breakup/
(Search: “baggage”)
I know it may not be “very attractive in general”, and N2Deep is right – it’s because people expect perfection, without even knowing it. Why is baggage automatically associated with the negative or unwanted? How do people expect to fly with someone, if they can’t even get past the baggage check? Baggage is normal. People need to get over others having difficulty getting over theirs. Like I mention in my post, if people dismiss others on account of being emotionally damaged, then nobody would ever find the one that was meant for them, if you believe in such a thing.

30 isn’t a death sentence on your love life. Maybe thinking that way, is the death sentence. Some of us are late bloomers. If anyone should be mentally preparing themselves for a life alone, that would be me, but that’s a long story…

You say “No man in his right mind is going to fall head over heels for me…”, but then doesn’t Love have a way of taking us out of our right minds (and into our hearts)? The reason no one would propose to you one day and marry you the next, is because of all the red-tape this world blocks you with. Weddings take time to plan. And lots of it. If you dont want that slowing you both down, you can always skip it and get hitched at a small chapel, or drive-through. I don’t know about others, but personally, the ceremony means little to me, boastful and extravagant. The vows are where it’s at – humble and truthful.

Anyway, as far as the different approaches to marriage in regards to gender is concerned, I’ve always been closer to your percieved “women’s approach”, but I’ve met a few women who have the men’s approach you describe. where Love is a prerequisite, but I can totally see where you would get your perception of “men’s approach”, because a lot of men *are* like that. At the same time, I can’t say that I blame them, because of the high expectations that most women seem to have in regards to men. So they try to get survival out of the way first, and then, when they’re ready, start looking for a mate. From my experience, women just don’t take them seriously otherwise, and no amount of virtues, patience, forgiveness, tolerance, thoughtfulness, and/or kindness can make up for a lack of income. It’s the truth.

I tend to disagree with your evaluation of N2Deep’s situation. I can understand where he’s comging from. It seems to me that there are issues (I.E. of defensive nature) about her which bother him. I think he feels that she should be 100% open and comfortable with him, and vise-versa, before getting married, or else, there’s a huge risk that her implosive nature will get highly explosive, and he’ll be the one taking the blast. He mentions how he can’t accept that she always wants to be right. (This is a control issue that the majority of women need to get over, quite frankly.) I get this. Her constant need to come out on top makes his life feel like one giant argument, a struggle, competition. No one wants to fight against the person they love, and especially not every day, for the rest of their lives. I don’t blame him for not tying the knot, cause it’ll all be for naught, be a whole mess and end in divorce. It’s odd that he doesn’t mind it from others, but after thinking about it, it’s probably because he doesn’t really care, nor value their opinion, just the one of the woman he loves. It shouldn’t always be about butting heads, it should be about facing something together, talking it through and working it out in the end, no matter who was right or wrong at the beginning. I suspect this is how N2Deep feels. He told us that he has tried addressing the snag, only to face a wall, impervious to reason. I think his fears are justified, and he should listen to his instincts, rather than succumb to her whim. I also think, incidentally, that N2Deep is a Libra, am I right?

How is he wasting her time, when he admits that they love each other? The way I see it, he has faith that she will… I hate to say “change”, as people get defensive about that, so I’ll say “come around”, with enough Love and patience, which is what he is affording her. I know what some of you are thinking, and Shewrell wrote it very well in her second paragraph. Bottom line is that expectation breeds resentment. But, and I argue, having faith (read: acceptance + patience) (that someone will change), is different than having expectations.

There is talk of selfishness… I think it’s perfectly fine to be loving toward yourself, looking out for your best interests and well-being, but at the same time, you can’t be in a relationship, let alone a marriage, if you can’t concede, sacrifice and compromise on things.

@ Dash, Well put!

I see you both followed up, N2Deep and Elle… Well, it took me long enough to write all of this, so I’ll leave it as is and go from here.

@ N2Deep, hang in there. You’re probably holding on because of your experience with the one you let go, and remembering how she would fight for you, no matter what. You honor her, and the name of Love. Be proud.

@ Elle (last post), *tsk tsk* so negative. You must believe that you *will* find someone who is different (I.E. perfect for you), in order to spot him when you see him. You are noble not to burden your SO with your “BS”, but honestly, as long as you don’t expect him to fix things, and explain that he shouldn’t internalize it, it would make you feel good to vent every now and then, even if you must yell, tell him you are not yelling *at* him, but just need to let it out, and get it off your chest. If relationships are anything, it’s about being open, sharing things (incl. emotions and feelings), and most of all, having someone there who will listen, when you need them to, thoughtful, mindful, and understanding toward one another. If anything, after you’re done, and feel better, as long as you don’t then immediately leave him, making him feel like a used tissue, he’ll pick up on that, and be happy to have helped. Be sure to thank him for listening. It’s the little things that matter most. Share a burden, and you half it. Share a joy, and you double it.

Good luck. Be brave. You will find him. Believe it.

@Veracity

“So On Point”!!!!

You understand where I was coming from even adding a few things that I didn’t mention. Especially about everyone bringing some kind of baggage along and we should understand that its just part of life. I am a proud “Scorpio” and the way I am in this relationship is totally different than how I was. I was the type to keep stepping because women were available but losing the one that I regretted letting go of started the change in me.

I want to say that I do place some value in what others think (your comments incl.) but to me the person you choose to marry should know your strengths and allow you to show your weakness without using it against you.

There is a great amount of trust that is placed and we all have heard, know or done some things when our heart is broken. A lot of times unexpected things occur and normally sane people do insane acts!! i.e. R.I.P. Left Eye from TLC, (Burned down the House)

I truly believe that patience is a virtue. We tend to take that statement as meaning “let this person go and the one for you will come” but I feel that it also means that you may have the one for you but be patient with them. Most of us forget that we are dealing with someone who has lived longer than we have known them so change is hard when I have known you only four years but now your 32. I have no idea what you went through the previous 28 years so how can I expect or demand you to change after such a short time. If I love you I have to be patient.

I also want to add that we may be the one for someone else and they grow to be the one for us. Just for example, I love dark skinned women who a little bit hood, creative, freaky and want to have their own business. My lady don’t act hood, shes not dark, she is not into being creative or owning her own business and not as much a freak as I liked but that didn’t stop us from getting together. We have to start somewhere and then when we discover how the person is weigh the importance of the things we LIKE or must have?.

We stop ourselves from being happy a lot of times by the choices we make. Its kind of like not buying a car because its not your dream car or not getting a job because its not your dream job. We make exceptions in everything else so why not allow somethings the opportunity to work out.

Thank you for hearing me!!!

I hear your words and I feel you.

@ N2Deep

Thanks for the acknowledgements.

I *am* rather perspicacious, aren’t I? At least, I humbly like to think so.

Forgive me, when I wrote: “…probably because he doesn’t really care, nor value their opinion, just the one of the woman he loves.” I didn’t mean to make you sound careless, or self-centered. On the contrary. I thought the word “really” would get the message through that hers simply weigh a great deal more for you. I wondered if I place more emphasis on that word, it risked pronouncing and suggesting that you don’t care one scintilla, about the opinions of others, when that’s not what I suspected at all. Ah the limitations of textual communications…

Moving on, I must say that I’m surprised. It seems uncharacteristic of a Scorpio, to behave like that. See what Love can do? You really have grown and matured. Good for you. We feel the same way about a lot of things (esp. incl. that the woman you marry should not be one to use your weaknesses against you). Was the one you let go, a Libra, per chance? Maybe a Cancer or Pisces?

You got exactly what I was trying to point out with “Patience is a virtue”. Sadly, many *do* see it as letting go of someone, only to meet another, perhaps better suited person, to come along. But something Shewrell wrote, has me seriously reflecting… “in relationships…people do not make major changes to their makeup/personality.” Can this be true, or are we just too occupied to notice? I’ve been steady with someone who recognized great changes in me, from since she met me (and that alone, should disprove Shewrell’s theory), but then, it’s almost as if I wasn’t changing fast enough for her – that the final “perfect” picture she had of me wasn’t coming fast enough, and she got impatient, asking me how long it will take, etc. That right there was what started slowing me down – besides, how much can someone keep changing, before they lose themselves entirely? So long as she was supportive, encouraging, acknowledging, and, most of all, patient, I was happy to change, because I knew that the changes were for the better – for my own benefit. But once it was expected, and almost as if, imposed, I resisted. Reason probably being that I wasn’t going to change “for her” (I’ve done that before, and it doesn’t stick, especially when you only end up getting dumped, despite your most earnest efforts and progress), I wanted to change for myself, and at my own pace, whatever was comfortable, and that’s what she ended up not allowing me to do, by placing all that pressure on me. (Needless to say, it didn’t work out.) On the flip side, perhaps where Shewrell derived that theory, is that most people, when they finally get into a relationship, and feel accepted (usu. after copulation), they feel like they don’t need to do anything further, because they already got her, or him. They felt loved and/or accepted for who they were, at that moment, so why change? Greed is the greatest motivator of all, followed by need. Once they got what they wanted, there’s no incentive to try any “harder”, be any better, or exert much more focus or energy toward self-improvement. Like they already got a person’s attention. Mission accomplished. I can let loose, relax, become complacent. On the flip side, once someone has become accepted, as I mention above, if after a long period of self-doubt and loneliness, they can “lock-in” to the personality they were exhibiting at the time, out of fear that if they ever *do* change, that the person will no longer want them. So they stay stuck there, petrified, without showing it. Again, if people were just more understanding, loving and patient of others, all of this would be insignificant, in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately – and sometimes, fortunately, we are the products of how others have treated us in the past. It’s all in our own hands. Respect one another, and treat others how you would like to be treated, because sooner or later, it all comes back around and repeats itself. We each, individually, have the power to put a stop to it. Otherwise, progress is difficult under those circumstances, isn’t it?

Whether or not Shewrell understands the reality of all of this – and I suspect that she does, she has found or developed a coping mechanism for it. Instead of charging headlong directly toward the problem, which she knows will result in the other person taking a defensive stand, she keeps her head cool, and studies her situation. Why is it bothering her? What can she do about it? How can she respond? Getting frustrated trying to change something she may or not be able to, while breeding resentment, hardly seems productive or even healthy for her, nor the relationship. Off the bat, she gives herself two options. Accept or reject. From that point, she’ll commit to her choice, and happily work with that goal (or if you like, “undercurrent”) in mind. Think of the choices, and think of your partner. You’re making that choice *about* your partner. Accepting is loving. Rejecting is not caring. Instead of breeding resentment between yourselves, you can breed Love. You would be wise to heed those words.

I don’t know your situation exactly, but a suggestion, whenever you are ready, of course, is to approach her lovingly. This may seem underhanded, but do something sweet for her, that you know she would notice. It could be that you make one of her favorite suppers and do all the dishes, clean the place up, put the kids to bed, all while telling her that you’ll take care of everything that evening. Insist. This will only work if you are genuinely happy to serve her. It can also be a foot and/or back rub, a foot soak (bring her a tub of hot/warm water, with epsom salt, dim the lights and light some candles, while putting on her favorite show – don’t forget the towel!). Remember that your theme is “Accept”. You love her. Let her know it. When the mood is right, look her in the eyes and tell her that you love her. Not earth nor sea can stop those three words, when you say them, with conviction, because you sincerely do. Then you can explain to her how *you* are/have been feeling: “I’ve been feeling a little left out lately. I want you to be open with me, and share your feelings. I won’t try to change you, and I wont criticize you. I just want to understand. It hurts me when you don’t share your pain.” And/or whatever else you are feeling.

Just a suggestion, since talking to her directly, or bringing it up abruptly doesn’t seem to be working out for you.

I see what you mean about being the one for someone else, who grows to be the one for you (or vise-versa), just like how the one you left (I hope it’s not a sore point each time I bring it up, with all due respect, I know you really cared about her), must have thought about you. It’s similar to what I’ve tried explaining to Elle, about being with someone who isn’t on the same page as you, in the thread I linked above. Love is transforming. While we tend to think we know what we like, this only narrows our list of desires (besides, I like cake and cookies, but after having them, it’s obvious that they don’t like me ), it doesn’t necessarily help us find who we ultimately end up with. It’s appreciating what we have, that makes us happy.

I hear you my friend.

Oh, and, you’re welcome.

@Veracity

LoL @ cyberstalking … I don’t believe in such thing. But that’s a different story for a different day.

You’ve touched on so many aspects that I don’t even know where to start. So excuse me if I am all over the place with this response.

People always call my approach negative. I am used to that by now and it is ok. To me it is realistic. Why? Because of my own experiences, my mother’s, my brother’s, my friends’ and so on. I don’t even know anyone who managed to be in love with the same person for let’s say 20 or more years. Granted, some marriages may have lasted that long or longer on paper, but what’s going on in a person’s heart is oftentimes a different story. Based on reality I simply do not believe in the kind of love I expect. My ideals are unrealistic I guess but I am not willing to half-behind something as important as love. Either all or nothing. Since “all” is unlikely to happen I rather not deal with it at all. Saves me valuable time and energy because based on logic, reality and experience the world doesn’t revolve around me and I do not get what I want the way I want it. So no escaping to some remote island to get hitched from one day to the next and a happily ever after for Elle.

While love may take us out of right minds and into our hearts, it doesn’t keep us there for long. A year, 2 years or 5 down the line things look much different and people’s tolerance for trying times decreases by the minute. By trying times I don’t even mean tension between the two involved but simply outside factors such as financial worries, sickness etc. The men and women of my generation are not build for tough like the generations before us were. Most of us fold under pressure. Since I don’t, I can’t respect people who do. Without respect there is no relationship. See the dilemma? Hence reason number 2 of why I am simply being realistic and not negative.

I assume I am the oddball like always but talking about my worries does not make me feel better at all. People always tell me that talking about my problems will be a relief. Sorry, I can’t agree. Sure, it may be the way to go for many if not most. For me it isn’t – at least not when really serious issues are concerned. Talking about it reminds me of it, and more times than not I do not want to dwell on a problem but roll up my sleeves and do what it takes to fix it. If there is nothing in my power to fix the problem, why talk about a sore spot and prevent it from healing? I honestly don’t get the point. All this talking doesn’t solve anything and in my case it certainly does not allow for the healing to begin.

Putting that somewhat into perspective to what N2Deep’s situation is I would say that if a man simply can’t accept that about me, he simply isn’t the one for me. Period. How can you only love 90% of Elle and expect me to change the remaining 10% to suit you? It doesn’t work like that. At least not in my world. A man who can’t love, accept and respect me and my quirkiness plus my baggage in all their glory but still holds on in hopes of me changing is wasting my time – and his own.
When I love, I love. And that means all of a person. I am with Shewrell: accept or reject. If I can see myself living with my SO’s so called flaw, I accept it as a part of him, the person I love. If I know full and well I can’t, I step. I am not one to change people for I won’t let anyone change me. I am what I am, take it or leave it. It’s really that simple IMHO. I just wish others would use this cut dry approach as well instead of being wishy washy and being in love with the idea of being in love instead of being realistic and (brutally) honest with
not only me but also themselves. If you can’t love all of me, you can’t have any of me.

Without wanting to sound harsh but “believing” is for church. I prefer to analyze and draw conclusions.

@Elle

I hate that you are use to being taken that way and I hope that you are able to see more than just that. I don’t think change is always the issue. A lot of times we have to experience things to see that they have always been there. You said that you don’t know of anyone who has been “In love ” with the same person for 20 years and that is part of what shapes your ideas about love and maybe life itself.

You say the love you seek can’t even be so how do you expect anyone to begin to be that person for you. Most people just want a chance at love to see if it fits them. You are not always going to find the best fit for you on the first try but you see the things that you like or don’t like. The next time you go into it with a better understanding of what works for you. You do have to give it a chance before it can work at all.

Believing is involved in everything that we do. You believe your way of thinking is right or you would agree with everyone. Right? I know sometimes life seems like an experiment but you will miss out by always analyzing and concluding. You need to give it a try because never do something so you don’t make a mistake is the biggest mistake. The experience is what makes you better and it comes from the good and bad times.

I just want to ask you what if anything you accept 100%? Nobody can be just cut and dry or the world wouldn’t be as it is.
{”Enter Church”} The Commandments are cut and dry and I’m pretty sure everyone has disobeyed some of them! {Exit Church}
I believe the reason most marriages and relationships don’t work is not because being in or out of love. They don’t work because of likes and dislikes. Hold on let me explain; Elle you could be the perfect woman and we are in love and then I find out you do something that I never liked in my life. If I talked to you about it and you did nothing because you feel that its petty because it doesn’t bother you then that would be the thing that will lead to our demise. The love will always be there but our little likes and dislikes is what breaks down being in love into divorce and separation.

I feel I am being honest because We love each other no doubt but because I love her and want to be with her I have to deal with the things I don’t like to prevent the whole thing from failing.
I would like to use an analogy about love to illustrate my thoughts.

Love is like:

I don’t like oatmeal but love oatmeal pies.
I hate tomatoes but I love Ketchup on everything.

There are things we don’t like that we can love if its in a different form.

Imagine Love being in a two liter bottle and you having a 16 ounce glass. Will all that love fit? yes How? 16 ounces at a time. You have to start with some to get it all.

@ Elle

You are a curious bundle of contradictions, I’ll give you that. Here’s Round 2 of our intellectual exchange (on matters of the heart, I might add).

Well, N2Deep covered most of what I was in the process of writing, and did a great job of it, too. I already typed most of this, so I’ll post it, and hopefully, it will give you (and others) a different angle on things.

I was contemplating how to respond to: “I don’t even know anyone who managed to be in love with the same person… some marriages may have lasted that long or longer on paper, but what’s going on in a person’s heart is oftentimes a different story.”, and I was going to differentiate being “in Love” from “loving” someone, where the former is a thrill or sensation, while the latter is something completely different – what I’ve been talking about all along, but I don’t quite like doing that, because as long as two people (have) love (for) one another, they are “in” Love. N2D’s take on how you can be in Love with someone, but dislike something about them. It’s much easier to understand. I’m not saying that you can love someone but not like them, I’m talking about not agreeing with something they do, the way they do something, or don’t do something, or approach something, or think of something. (Any of which could be changed.)

@ N2Deep But I don’t understand how you say: “I don’t think change is always the issue.” and then seemingly deconstruct it, only to arrive at “If I talked to you about it and you did nothing because you feel that its petty because it doesn’t bother you then that would be the thing that will lead to our demise.”, because it becomes circular – if the fact that the other person did nothing (instead of change) to try to understand you, and relieve your misgivings/anxiety/troubles, is exactly what you are trying to address. The fact that they *didn’t* change their attitude/behavior/what-have-you, nor have any interest to, *is* the issue. Maybe it’s just me.

(Back to Elle)

You want brutally honest, I sense that you’re hurting. You’ve been suffering for a long time, and I feel for you. You probably don’t deserve that. So let’s see what we can do.

Now, I completely understand your view on the futility of talking about problems. I was like that, for many many years. It doesn’t solve jack! It only brings them to the surface. Yes? Well, I agree, up to a point – a boiling point, that is, because after a while all that pent up anger / frustration which is hurting you from the inside, has to come out. So, better it surfaces than slowly poison you, bottled within. The reason I have mostly felt that way about talking (that it really doesn’t help), was because (I later realized that) the people I talked to weren’t really listening, as if oblivious to major (plus very founded and valid) concerns – they didn’t *CARE*, which was obvious from their indifference and lack of action. They didn’t care, and they made no effort to, like I wasn’t being taken seriously, like my opinion didn’t matter, like I didn’t count, like I had no value, even though I was 100% right. It hurts. It sucks. So I kept it shut to myself, no matter what, because it only hurt when I opened up, and thus began the first stages of depression. The reason talking didn’t help was because the people I talked to didn’t want to help, one bit. But there’s hope – it’s different when you talk to someone who actually does care, believe me. They roll up their sleeves *with* you, dive in and see if there’s anything they can do to help fix it, which even if there is not, helps from knowing someone is there *for* you. I get that now. I didn’t before, because everyone I used to talk to was pretty much an a$$, who didn’t give two sh1ts, not to get graphic or anything, and if you told me then, to find “somebody” to talk to, I would scoff at you, and be thinking that there’s no point. That’s why it’s difficult to explain it to you. You’ve probably tried it with people who didn’t care, or only used what you told them against you, maybe to mock or ridicule you. Or, maybe you thought about it, and concluded that it does nothing for you, but never really tried it, other than coming online and typing it out, of course, and even then, nothing compares to compassion, from someone right there with you. (Now imagine the message above, while replacing the talking bit, with “loving” – aren’t they analogous, after all?)

The conclusion from my analysis is that you don’t want to deal with emotions, not yours or anybody elses – they are too chaotic, erratic, capricious, flighty and elusive for you, so you decided some time ago, to approach things concretely, logically, “realistically”. You do action, action results in something, and that’s all there is to it. But what you may not have realized is that in the absence of hope, you lose touch with your heart. You’ve been walking in a straight line, because you believe that Love strays.

I knew a woman like that. As much as she tried deluding herself that her negativity was mere realism, she believed that she was past emotions, and that she could be “stronger” than her feelings, even though that very resistance, is what gives rise to negativity. First, a word on negativity, since you seemed almost protective of it, often taking a defensive posture when it comes up. Let me tell you, there’s nothing wrong about it, and you have every right to it. In fact, the only thing right about it, is that it’s perfectly normal. It’s “bad”, because it damages and hurts you, but it’s not “wrong” to be negative, or have negative thoughts. I feel negatively about the actions of abuse, cheating, lying, bullying… and I always will. That having been said, I don’t think you’re a negative person, in general, but in this case, I felt that your standpoint was relatively negative, which accounts for my playful teasing. (I was attempting to assuage the associated stigma.) With that out of the way, and back to my story, like any hopeless romantic, I kept faith, and soon enough, she cried to me (because I was so sweet to her, and accepted her the way she was), where she once told me that she was at the point in her life where she was “past” crying. Well, you can cry at any age, right? But as long as she believed that life was linear, how could she “go back”, like travelling through time, to the place where she used to cry? In case you’re wondering, ultimately, it didn’t work out, because she was not only an “All or Nothing” kind of gal (and I did give her All of me), but she was a “My way or the highway” kind of a gal – about *everything*, because of her predisposition, and those kind of people simply cannot last in any healthy relationship.

Well, the truth is, Love *does* stray, because we all have these fantastic notions of it, but I’ll get to that in a minute. You’re walking through an enormous, gorgeous field of flowers, (I’m making an analogy here, the flowers represent people’s souls – the Love force, that guides them.) except you stay on the straight, beaten path through, because your concern is solely focused on destination. As tempting as it is, you don’t prance out onto the grass, do cartwheels, spin around until you’re dizzy, lay down under the sun and let your imagination find shapes among the clouds. Besides, that would impede your movement and waste valuable time, God forbid. So you run faster, hoping maybe that one of the flowers will snap by your gust, and fly into your hair, all by itself. By the time you realize that the path you’re on only loops you around the earth, and never ends, you risk regretting every step you’ve taken.

“Because of my own experiences… Based on reality I simply do not believe in the kind of love I expect.” N2Deep beat me to the obvious flaw in that statement, which I’m sure you were aware of, when typing it, but here’s another take: Imagine trying to convince a subterranean troll, who has never left their dwelling, that the sun actually exists. How can he believe you, when he’s never seen it? What’s oddest of all, is that he even has these gorgeous and elaborate paintings of it, all over his lair. When asked what they were, he describes it magnificently, to the most colorful of details, and he tells you that it all came from inside of him. You tell him that’s just amazing, because there’s something out there, exactly like that! A beautiful sun that paints the sky every day, when it rises, and when it sets, just like he imagined. It illuminates things, and makes everything clearer to see, vivid and alive. It keeps us warm, shines rays through the clouds and even makes an arch of colors appear, when it’s raining! He doesn’t believe you. You tell him it’s right there, if he just followed you, but he doesn’t want to. He has managed to survive this long on what the cavern provides, and he doesn’t want to risk losing it. You tell him it’s a shame – that he’s missing out, but that it’s out there, and pretty easy to find, if ever he wants to see it. He thinks about it for a moment, and argues, “How can I miss out on something I never even saw?” You beg to differ, “But you *have* seen it, inside of you!” And he says, “That’s not real, it’s only what I dream about, as a distraction from all this darkness.” After going back and forth for a while, you finally submit, “Well, if you don’t believe it exists, and you don’t believe me, then there’s nothing more I can do. I’ll be on my way.” But the troll, as stubborn as it was, knew at the back of his mind, only after you left (because then he was 100% sure that you weren’t after anything of his, or trying to trick him), that there was something more. After all, why were you so adamant – so determined, and stay for so long, trying to convince him, only to leave without a thing? There must have been a *reason*, and he just had to find out what that was. He decided to investigate, and venture outside. An hour or two later, he found his way to the surface, passing the boundaries he was familiar with, but when he emerged, so much time had passed, that night had fallen, and the cold air was scorching against his tender skin. Despite the cutting chill, he breathed a sigh of relief, because he had just proven to himself, that such a thing as the sun did not exist, and the unsuspecting troll descended whence he came, never to come out again.

I was saying that Love sways, strays, wanders… It’s pretty finicky, from what I understand about it, at least in others, because most people *are* in love with the idea of being in love. On the other hand, there are people who only believe what they see, and let actions speak, making their SO “prove” that they love them. Well that’s not Love either, because then it’s a game of keeping tabs. “You did this for me, I do this for you, now we’re even.”, “I did that for you, now you have to do this for me.”, “He worked so hard, and surprised me, I’ll make it up to him, tonight…” I’m sorry, but it just doesn’t work that way. In the end, it’s a bit of both, drenched in trust, with a dash of faith.

You said it yourself, your ideals are unrealistic. (I’ve been told the very same thing, when it came to relationships.) You expect a certain kind of Love (read: the impossible kind – but it’s not even that, because you feel that you can offer exactly what you’re looking for, so how can it be impossible?), so you decided that you just don’t believe in it – makes sense, right? If it’s unreal = not real, then it’s not out there. Not only is your flower absent from the field, Elle, it’s on the opposite side of the bordering mountain, where no one sees it – where no one can appreciate it. The Love you look for is right there, in that flower, but no one else believes in it, either, even those frolicing in the field, because they can’t see it, in all its elegant glory.

Once in a while, you might meet someone special that wandered off over the mountain and spotted you, that you might consider lowering your ideals for, at least from unrealistic, to something he can work with.

*In* Love is the illusion – the butterflies, the dreams, the anticipation, the uncertainty, but loving someone, is not.

Love sways. Even after being with someone for a long time, so our soulmates try to follow our Love, as sinuous as it is, and we try following theirs. It’s about keeping that flow, and finding harmony.

Last few things I’ll pick apart with you… You wrote: “Since ‘all’ is unlikely to happen I rather not deal with it at all. Saves me valuable time and energy.”

Maybe you want to remain single for the rest of your life, and that’s perfectly fine, but I don’t think that’s the case, because of how you talk about Love. Love *is* about sharing, so if you can’t see yourself “wasting” time and energy on someone, then that’s too bad, I guess. But I think you’re missing the point here – you’re supposed to be *happy* to share things with that one person (how else can you – without constantly arguing over it, share the responsibility of rearing another life, should it come to that?). Your dilemma is that you don’t want to spend any time on someone else, to find out if they are what you want, or if they are the one. Should you know from the moment you lay eyes on him? Should *they* know from the moment they lay eyes on you? Because it’s my experience that the last one only freaks women out. But what if I’m right, and this is one big lottery, where only if both those conditions are met, is there that ever-lasting Love, or else, an unhealthy attachment, forever pining for the unattainable? Or what if it’s merely a matter of two people who are attracted to one another, willing to try, for as long as it takes?

Incidentally, if were to guess, I’d say you were Virgo, Elle, if not, Libra yourself. Am I right?

“While love may take us out of right minds and into our hearts, it doesn’t keep us there for long.”

I disagree. Under the right circumstances, anything is possible. Two people committed to respecting each other and deciding to Love Unconditionally, can make it happen, and be happy walking up next to one another, every day. Just have to practice being nice to each other, and never let that go.

You say: “Most of us fold under pressure. Since I don’t, I can’t respect people who do. Without respect there is no relationship.”

But yet, I can be a great [insert game/sport] player, and still have respect for someone who’s horrible at it by comparison.

What if the shoe was on the other foot? If you folded under pressure, would you have respect for someone who didn’t? Or would you immediately have none, because you couldn’t relate, nor understand them?

What I’m saying is that Repsect is something that works in any direction – not only in the direction you can see, equal or higher/better than you. That would be like saying you can respect a brilliant musician, but not a novice, if you were a half-decent one, yourself. Or, like a butterfly that can’t respect neither the caterpillar, nor another butterfly that can’t fly straight, because its wings were mangled by a predator. Don’t confuse admiration or expectation, with respect.

Imagine someone saying: “I can run this fast, so I have no respect for anyone who cannot, but have incredible respect for anyone who can run even faster. Once I run faster than them, I won’t respect them anymore, either.” Wouldn’t that sound silly? What happens if he breaks his leg? Chances are, he’d probably end up resenting the lot of them.

You were once a fledgling, yourself, Elle, and still are, in many respects, I’m sure, because no one is perfect. If you have more knowledge, wisdom, experience, skill and/or commonsense than someone, regarding something, and you see them struggling with it, you can always help them, show them, guide them, teach them, and still have respect for them. In return, I suspect they’ll have that much more respect for you, and even if they don’t, you will have more respect for you, and may end up feeling good about yourself. Just stating the obvious (- some people miss that sometimes, myself included). I’m not implying that you *don’t* help, teach, or respect people.

“How can you only love 90% of Elle and expect me to change the remaining 10% to suit you?”

I feel we’ve already gone around in circles with that one, but I’ll try again… Let’s say someone loves you. He wants to share the rest of his life with you. You love him too, and want the same. It’s set. He loves you 100%, not 80 or 90. You love every part of him. After 4 years together, he takes up smoking. You don’t like it – it’s repugnant and you can’t tolerate it. You quickly get angry because he smokes indoors, and the odor is getting into all of your clothes, the rugs, the fabrics, the furniture. You’re repelled. He argues that he has a right to smoke in his own house (let’s say you both bought property together). You worry about his health and yours. The worrying causes you stress. You still love him, because he’s otherwise perfect in every way for you. You love him 100%, but you don’t like his decision to smoke. You’re patient with him, up to a point, but he sees that you’re really upset over it. Because he *does* love you, he promises to keep it away from you, and takes it outside, which is where he smokes, from then on. It still bothers you, because each time he does it, you smell it on him. He rinses his mouth, showers and bags his clothes up to wash, after every smoking session. The smell is very minimal now, but you still know he smokes, and you don’t like what that’s doing to his health. That’s where he draws the line and says that it’s his body, his life, his decision. It’s still an issue for you, because you care about him, and hate to see him adopt an unhealthy habit that is damaging to him, and counters his well-being. Needless to say, things just aren’t the same after that, because he can feel your constant (or lingering) disapproval, and you can’t help but worry about him. The cigarettes are now successfully wedging your relationship apart.

You can replace cigarettes with anything at all, an addiction or behavior. And so can your partner, if they feel that it’s a threat. It could be something like online gambling, flirting with others, even though they assures you that they won’t cheat, eating junk, or too much, drinking, or bottling up your anger, not letting your emotions out. Anything they do, that you feel is unhealthy, dangerous, threatening to yourself, your SO, or both, be it immediately, or in the long-run, because you care (why else would you be with them?). In the example, what if he just didn’t compromise with you, and continued smoking indoors? In that case, his lack of consideration could be the thing. Whatever it is, and believe me, there will be quite a few, you won’t like it, but you can still love the other person, and have faith that they will see the harm they are doing, and they will take your concern seriously, and take steps toward rectifying it (because some things, can’t just be changed overnight), not because of some ultimatum you gave them, in order to change them to better suit you, but because they heard your cry, silent or otherwise, and want to be a better person for you, improve their quality of life because it would improve the overall quality of both of yours – that’s how much they love you. You’re right – the world does not revolve around Elle, and you won’t always get what you want, the way you want it, but one man’s world can very well revolve around you, and he’d be willing to at least listen to the way you’d like things. It’s not about expecting them to change, it’s about knowing, and showing that you accept and love them, even if they didn’t change – how you understanding you are, and how you deal with it if they don’t, is what does that. And that’s what I’ve been trying to explain. You still love someone, 100%, and wish the best for them, even though it hurts you when they do something you don’t agree with. Hope that helps you see what I (and I believe, N2D) meant.

Well, I’ve had a wonderful experience here, and everyone’s so friendly. It’s truly been a pleasure, and I’ve learned a lot about myself, but alas, I’m afraid I’ll be throwing in my sock.

I thank everyone for their insight, and wish you all Love, peace, happiness (and faith).

Good luck to everyone.

Sorry about the double post. I noticed I didn’t fill out name, and I thought I stopped it on time.

Why is everyone trying to convince me to want to love, to be in love, to believe in love?

If you want it, cool, go ahead and suit yourself. I don’t want it. It’s too draining and stressful. So again, I don’t have the energy or time for it. Life is stressful as is just trying to survive. I can’t add on extra baggage by either dragging somebody along or trying to work around somebody else’s schedule, expectations and such.

We’re born alone and we die alone. So what’s with this need to avoid being alone in between?

But hey, I am an avid promoter of “Live and let live”. Yall do what’s best for you, and I’ll do what I deem the best for me.

Oh and I am a Pisces. Not sure what that has to do with anything but ok.

@Elle and Veracity

When I said that change is not always the issue I didn’t get into the detail that was intended. Some people view change as too hard because they feel they have to go through drastic measures. I feel that change is always possible because the desired result is close to us everyday and in the things we do everyday. Life is hard and its preached that we have to focus on our goals to acheieve them. This is true but it can also create tunnel vision. How many times have you driven the same route and one time you are in the passenger seat and see something that you never saw before or even in the backseat and see that house tucked off in the corner you never saw before. Your route didn’t change, you are able to take in more information that has always been there. This is what I meant because I feel that every does it however not intentional but we all need to recognize it.

@Elle

I have seen the effects of love and Its worth all the risks to me. We all need love in our lives. We have love from family and friends but to me for someone to love you that has no obligation to love you says a lot to me. Thats why it feels so good and it hurts so bad. I feel the same way you do on a lot of things but in my life sometimes I had to sit in the passenger seat or the back seat not to change my view but to broaden my reception. You are important and I feel that whoever the lucky person is to love you will get a strong minded understanding woman who has a lot of love to give and will not take it for granted.

You seem to be in the extremist zone so I see as much as you are against it that if you were for it you would be that strong willed promoter for it.

Love needs you as much as you need it.

@Veracity
Don’t take off your sock

I think marriage and relationships are relative. Everyone has different expectations, beliefs, criteria and motivation to get married or settle into a LTR. My aunt and uncle have been together for almost twenty years and they never made their union legit and they are no different from a married couple (commonlaw marriage is legally binding in Texas) and they have to face the same things as any other couple.

My sister married about ten years ago; that marriage lasted about nine months. I have no idea why she married him, but I guess she wanted to be able to say she was Mrs. Somebody or that she was married. My mother married a ne’er-do-well who is a huge burden on her; it took her almost thirteen years to realize he wasn’t going to change and finally make the break.

I mention my mother because her husband falls into the age category in question. His perspective haven’t changed in ten years; he married my mother because she told him, after three years of dating, if they weren’t getting married, she wanted to move on and meet someone who wanted what she did. He panicked and married her so he wouldn’t lose her, but ended up resenting her and the marriage.

My brother married because his GF was pregnant and she refused to have the baby unless they got married, so he did and they ended up having five children. They are divorced now because she was tired of children and tired of being tied down and left the children with their father and got her own place to live. My brother wanted the two-parent family for his children and he thought he was doing the right thing and he was, but for all the wrong reasons.

I too would like to be married. I wish I could find another gentleman like the one I had–he developed cancer and it spread before he had a chance to get treatment and he decided to go home and spend his remaining time with his family–but so far no dice. Most men are happy being single–I don’t know about black men because I don’t date them–but I think they are among the worst offenders when it comes to marriage and families.

Now that doesn’t mean I think black men are deadbeat fathers or have fears of commitment, but since most single-mother households are comprised primarily of black women, there is an argument to be made on that point. It’s hard to put a tag on it because for one, most men do not want children or they aren’t sure if they do. For the single mother it’s even harder because most men will not raise a child that isn’t his own.

Most of the men I date–white, usually older–are focused on establishing themselves in a career, acheiving financial security and completing their education before they focus on marriage. Simply put, they will not even consider marriage unless they knew they could afford to provide for a family, as with my beau. I know such men are rare and I was lucky to meet him, but of the majority most men in their 20s are looking to have fun and pass the time and by the time they’re in their 30s, some decided to marry, whether to keep from losing the woman or to provide a two-parent household for the children, while others decide the whole freelance lifestyle works for them. For most men–I’m basing my observation on white men because that’s what I date–they marry because they’ve completed their education or established a career and it’s time; they have to get married at a certain point or people will wonder if they’re gay–a mortal sin for black men, I guess–or something is wrong with them.

This push by society is what conributes to the rush to the altar and the inevitable desolution later, IMO. There are some men who think marriage is BS; in fact, one I went on a date with told me he believed marriage was BS and a long tern relationship was just as good. I asked him how many relationships he’d had and he got very quiet. Later–after we decided to be friends since we were incompatible–he confided to me that he was living the playboy lifestyle and living as a confirmed bachelor because it warded off questions about why he wasn’t married. He felt somewhat foolish still trying to act like a 20-something when he was nearly 50, but he just knew marriage wasn’t for him and he didn’t know why. I asked him if he needed love and I never got an answer.

I know for myself I would definitely rather be single and satisfied than married and miserable. I know what I’m seeking in a potential mate and while it is not in sync with what is expected in a relationship by most of society, I know I’m not willing to compromise myself and I plan to stick to my guns until I find what I’m looking for. Until then, I can live life as a single woman for as long as I have breath in my body.