I think I can easier see dating someone of a different religion than dating an atheist – I feel that the belief in somethiing greater than ourselves is a strong human connection we share and runs through just about every culture (See “Hero of a Thousand Faces”). I personally need rules for living – religion provides that for me. If you don’t believe in god – what do you believe in? My “soulmate” would Definitely have to have a relationship with god – even if it’s a dysfunctional one.

What were people called before the Bible was written 4000 years ago??I think one should be wary of being in any box.The only “God” I’m aware of is the things that have happened…and we can clearly see, touch, hear, taste etc.

Indians, Africans and native peoples honored mother nature via many Gods for each element.That makes way more sense to me than believing in heaven and hell….cause noone has ever died and reported back whether either exist.When y’all can give me God’s cell phone number or email address…holla.In the meantime I’m gonna live the way I’m living…trusting my own animal instincts to survive…emotionally, physically and financially.

Are you dating the God the person worships or the person??Some of the most open and loving people I know are very anti-religion ,anti-God. I’m not an atheist…I’m a human being.Noone died and dictated I have to wear any label pertaining to religion.It just doesn’t make sense to me to live my life following a book that degrades women and wasn’t even about my ancestors…I’m neither Greek or Jewish.And what’s the point in thinking a God is going to do for you what you choose not to do for yourself??

I think you’re confusing “blind faith” with brainwashing…most of what we were taught via the church is mind control tactics.Study the history of religion and it will all make sense.Unfortunately most people refuse to study the “history” of the Bible and instead lay their life on it.

Like I tell my friends…I don’t care what religion you practice as long as you don’t forget to say you’re sorry if you step on my toes.

Hmm, this is a good one. I am not an Atheist, but I am more spritual than I am religious. I actually have a deep contempt for organized religion. I feel that God or the Creator wouldnt have anything to do with such a system of hypocricy run by mere imperfact mortals. LOL. I feel that people have used religion to manipulate people into coming into their flock. I feel they give these people what I call Hope Entertainment in exchange for their time and money. I feel that in some ways the Church does great positive things for the community, but on the other hand, I feel that the Church is an example of how corrupt and misguided organzied religion truly have become. I think alot of people go to church just because they are afaid not to. I think that alot of people go with the concept of God out of fear of not going with the flow. I can date someone who is not a believer in God, but I wouldnt want to hear about it all the time, just like I dont want to engage in continuous discussions about the concept of God. In short.. I can do it, but just done keep reminding me about the shit. LOL

My concern about dating an atheist for me would be the hard times that are bound to come. I simply can’t imagine having someone that dear and close to me who is unable (unwilling?) to reach for intangible hope should the unspeakable happen. What (who) does an atheist reach for when a situation is hopeless? When humans are powerless? It would truly break my heart to watch my man, let’s say, reasoning his way through a death/or catastrophic illness. Yeah, all humans do that, but when you’re forced into the realization that there is NOTHING you can do? I just can’t imagine…Could he be there for me the way I’d need him to be?
More questions than answers, I know…

Not really in the mood to debate religion…I don’t practice it so it’s really not an important factor in my life.And my life is AWESOME!!!

So bible enthusiasts have a field day with Da Throne…lmao.

@ Lonias….you don’t need to believe in God to love somebody.If your mate is loving they will hold your hand and have your back through whatever.It’s important to listen to the authority on whatever is wrong…..if the doctor tells you you have “XYZ” do all the research in the world about “XYZ” so you have options.If you sit and wait for God to figure it out for you….you will probably die.The tools are here for us to live better lives.

I have a lot of love in my life…much more powerful than listening to a preacher on Sundays and handing over my hard earned money to put marble in his bathroom.

I would rather date an Atheist! I dont know any but I doubt they come knocking on your fucking door all early in the morning and shit!

@Lonias

You talk like Atheist are vampires or something!

This isnt TrueBlood! LMAO

I’m an atheist, and I refuse to date anyone who names their ignorance God and worships it.

@ Da Throne
Huh?

@Paulette
There are situations in which there is nothing ANYONE can do. I actually AM a scientist, so I highly respect the magnificance of modern medicine and all of the other things we have the power to do. Having Someone (God) to cast worries on to when things are out of control/out of human hands is important to me.

Everyone has the capacity to love. I know atheists are loving. I know a couple whose union is down-right admirable and she’s Christian and he’s an Atheist. I just don’t think that union is for me.

its late and i’ve been watching MJ videos all night…maybe i will post later. Just wanted to point out the atheist named angel :0)

@Lonias

Somebody clearly dont have HBO! LOL

Basically an Atheist is just as capable of dealing with adversity like any other humanbeing

@Hope2star

That is kinda funny! Talk about irony.

Well I’m an atheist as well and I date people who “say” they believe in god and a person or two who didn’t there is never a problem except for the one fellow atheist I shook ’cause all he could talk about was being and atheist…like bye weirdo.

I’m kind of curious @Lonias though, what do you mean by that?

“[your] concern … would be the hard times that are bound to come. [you] simply can’t imagine having someone that dear and close to me who is unable (unwilling?) to reach for intangible hope should the unspeakable happen. What (who) does an atheist reach for when a situation is hopeless”

When times get hard what do you need reach for? What about digging your heels in and trying harder at whatever needs to be fixed? I don’t ever see a situation as truly hopeless even in the most dismal circumstances. Situations change with physical action.

Anyways @NWSO I haven’t had any moral conflicts with mates. Believing in god doesn’t mean someone they have morals and a non believer in god doesn’t. I’m not creating havoc, murdering, thieving, harming people and what not, I respect my fellow human beings because they are human like me.

@EmotionalFunk
Let me clarify:
I do not mean to imply that I’m in the habit of standing still and waiting for things to “happen”. That’s the furthest from the truth. I’m saying that there are things I believe that only God can do. I recognize limitations in myself, and God picks up that slack. I believe this because I believe God is my Creator. I continue to believe this because I also believe in the Grace of God. Bottom-line: my faith in God is important to me, and it’s important to me that my man shares my faith.

Thanks for giving the atheist perspective…you, too, Paulette! My questions were sincere…

I was think about this just today. In order for a couple to have a sucessful relationship they need to be compatible in 4 areas.

1 Sexually
2 Mentally
3 Emotionally
4 Spiritually

I dont see how a believer and non-believer can be one.

I’m agnostic, which is a bit different from being an atheist. I’ve never dated another agnostic person. My parents are of different faiths (dad’s Muslim, mom’s agnostic but raised Christian). Among the many schools I attended, some were religious. I don’t have problems mixing with religious people. However, I wouldn’t want to date someone who is judging me negatively for not having similar beliefs. I would not want to raise a child with someone who is strongly religious and insists on raising our child(ren) to be that way, too.

@Lonias

I promise I’m not trying to be funny be could you give me an example or two of the things that god can only do that you can’t because of your limitations?

@EmotionalFunk
There are two from my past (hindsight is 20/20 right?) that I can think of @130 in the morning

The first example was when I lost my husband. People mean well when you’re grieving, but they often act and speak from some unwritten “rule book on comforting the grieving”, and it’s not always comforting. Truthfully everyone was on my nerves, and no one really understood. Now, this next part is hard to explain, but I’ll try. I couldn’t get myself together by myself; I was a mess. So it was me and God for almost a year. I drew my comfort from Him, and I had faith that He would see me through. I believe I would be meds right now (not knocking those who are) if not for God. That was a spiritual journey, requiring spiritual intervention.

My second example occured in college. When I packed up and flew thousands of miles from home to go to college, I had no idea how I was going to pay for it. My parents didn’t want to sign for a loan. I didn’t qualify for enough in grants, and I lost my only remaining scholarship opportunity a week before I left home. Long story short, I attended the financial aid/enrollment open house and within 15 minutes, I was awarded a full-ride scholarship a student had just given up to go somewhere else. I actually think I may have passed that student when I was walking in! In my view, my path was drawn out without much effort on my part, before I even got on the plane. Yeah, people were “involved” but this was my little miracle.

Again, from MY view, I couldn’t have gotten through the toughest period of grieving for the love of my life (a spiritual journey) by my own hand or any other hand. I probably would have had to leave college to raise funds because all other “financial doors” were closed, meaning my life would have been on hold (maybe not the end of the world, but not the path for me). I’m afraid these examples won’t score well on anyone’s “reasoning meter”…

Hey, have you seen this news article?
New details about Michael Jackson’s Death Emerge
I was wondering if you were going to blog about this…

This whole post just reminded me of an episode of “Girlfriends.” For those that didn’t watch the show, one of the characters (Tony) got married to a man from a different religion. From what I remember, the characters had a difficult time deciding what religion their daughter would practice. Although the characters came to a consensus that worked for them, it may not always play out so nicely in the real world. How would that work if one parent believed in God and the other one was an atheist? Based off the experience of these fictional characters, it seems like dating a person from another religion would be hard, especially when kids are involved. I can’t imagine would it would be like to date a nonbeliever, and since I love my relationship with God too much- I would not want to jeopardize it by dating an atheist. That’s just my opinion.

I havent read the whole thing yet. But this is a topic close and “dear” to me. Why? Because I am an Atheist.

Yall scared yet? Lmaoo … j/k.

I understand that due to Americas very own history, you have a close connection to God, religion, church, etc. But I have encounter several people (in America) who equal Atheist to Satanist and get all bent out of shape when somebody expresses their lack of believe in a higher power/being/God/Buddha/Manitou and so on.

Where I am from, Atheism is completely commmon. Again, reason for that is – yes you guessed it – my country’s history. Of course Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc. are just as common. But Atheism – where I am from – isn’t frowned upon, thought about, discussed or anything along those lines. Religion, belief systems and God(s) are simply not topics in the daily lives of the people here. Personally, except for my fiancé I don’t know anybody who believes in God. Things are reversed out here if I compare it to the US. For you, it is absolutely normal to be thanking God, to quote the Bible, to go to church and so on. Over here, people who are into their religion and make it known cause rolled eyes, dropped jaws and blank stares like an Atheist would in the US.

I don’t understand the big deal. Some people are vegetarians. Some are into SM. The next man likes to dress in women’s clothes. All these things are being tolerated by society and don’t cause any kind of negative reaction. Why is it so hard to tolerate somebody who doesn’t believe in God, Heaven, Hell, Satan? Doesn’t the Bible preach tolerance?
Being Atheist is just another form of living one’s life.

Now on to the questions:

Where do all these people come from?
- LoL. Sorry, that’s a ridiculous question. Coming from an intelligent man like you, that sounds very closed minded.

Do atheists marry other atheists and raise little atheist babies?
- See above.

Or is it just a matter of someone choosing to walk down his or her own path in life?
- Pretty much. That and where you have been raised. There is no reference to God in our courts, schools, anthems or on our money. We don’t throw religion into the mix in everything we do. Believing is something that should be done in people’s private lives and not be enforced by the government – not even when it’s being done subtle.

The latter has got to be pretty hard. Not only are atheists going against the majority but they also run the risk of moral conflicts with potential mates that can’t be overlooked.
- Ok, technically this isnt a question. But being an Atheist isnt hard when it is common. It wouldn’t have to be even when it isnt common if the rest of society practised tolerance as much as it preaches it.

Would you ever consider dating an atheist?
- Duh.

What are your views on atheism?
- See above.

How important is someone’s religious beliefs to you when dating?
- Not at all. Whatever the people in my cricle want to believe in is fine with me. Just dont try to save my soul.

Does your soul mate have to have a relationship with God?
- Apparently not.

In the event that you have a child with someone of a different religion, how would you decide what faith your offspring would follow?
- My fiancé and I have decided on living both. Our kids will be taught every perspective so they can one day choose the one that makes most sense to them.

Could differences in faith cause you to call off a wedding?
- Again: apparently not.

Sad to see that the questions have been rather onesided – which normally they are not.

This is the type of question one should consider to become a better rounded adult, however, it is also a question that reveals deeply entrenched ideas and notions about belief systems or the lack thereof. There is no ‘win’ in discussions of this nature but hopefully we will manage to keep it respectful as we share our thoughts and beliefs without attacking or subjecting to ridicule, the ideas and beliefs held by others. A little science here and a little logic there, sprinkled with awareness of how the ‘impossible’ happens will not change any minds. We ALL have beliefs and have likely heard most of the opposing views so I do not see this dialogue resulting in any ‘ah-hah’ moments for anyone…yet, you never know, bcuz we’re all open minded–right? lol………

As paulette points out, for eons, there have been people who worshipped/respected Gods associated with elements from their natural environment. The sun, moon, harvest gods, etc,. Is that to say there is worship of SOMETHING outside of man? IMO, the answer is yes……..Though I recognize the dominant belief systems as Christianity, Islam and Budhaism, I have personally evolved to a place where I do not see myself as the one to decide whom is right, who will enter the gates of heaven and hell. My job is to do my part to live and impact the lives of others in a beneficial way and let what will be get determined by God whenever that decision is rendered. So can a person who identifies him or her-self as an athiest end up in heaven? Absoutely, bcuz HIS ways, are not like ours……ANYTHINGs possible, miracles and mysteries still occur and love can concur most, if not all things…… The bottom line is: It’s not for me to decide, and I can’t take this word of God over that one to conclude there is only one way to view life and our role in it….. what will be is not the way I think it will be…but the way it SHOULD be….

As far as the ability to date a person who is a professed atheist, I’m not sure I could bcuz that person is gonna face some obstacles with my family..and U gotta be able to get along with the fam….IF the woman was a low key, not all up in your face atheist, I could work with them, especially if they could accompany me to church on important occasions. A couple has to be able to compromise..Meaning, I’m not gonna preach to you and you don’t tell me how ‘foolish’ my belief system is. Respectable differences are possible, but I imagine it could be a bit difficult and would require some really grown and mature thoughts and behavior. Simple and easy work best for me…..but anything’s possible.

@ Elle…..Why don’t you just say where you’re from so we can figure out what we know about the land down under? So we can make associations about what has been accomplished in the land where Atheism is the order of the day? Bcuz we do keep score, right? What God has done here versus over there where they do not believe in God? Seems like you’re hiding behind anonymity as if we will know you’re address if you say you’re from Australia, or someplace. I take offense that you sort of slammed the topic and ridiculed the questions. I lived in Japan for 6 years of my married life and my daughter was born over there. Japanese people would come up and ask to touch her, especially her cheek (bcuz they had NEVER seen a black baby up close)? It was weird, but I didn’t ridicule it bcuz they didn’t KNOW better…These specific people hadn’t seen a black child by the 1980’s? Surely, we were not the first black military or state department employees to live in Japan….So, a question asking ” where do all the atheist come from ” sounds reasonable, giving how rare one encounters an atheist in America , but your response was kinda on the unfriendly side……..This blog is reachable from all parts of the world….but it’s rooted in America and therefore will more times than not, represent an American view of the world..work with us…

I’m a Christian. Not the best Christian (according to some) since I take the Lord’s name in vain, swear, gossip, I’m pro choice and gay marriage, I have sex and don’t go to church on a regular basis LOL etc. But a Christian nonetheless. I love Gospel music, Christmas is my FAVORITE holiday and prayer genuinely makes me feel better. It would be nice to find a mate who was along these lines with me.
I’ve run into just about every religion there is but I’ve only had 4 encounters with true atheists.

1. I was in Ms. Zolbe’s 3rd grade choir. We had prepared “Christmastime is Here” from the Charlie Brown special to sing at the holiday concert. I must admit we were really really good. Its a beautiful tune. One of my fellow students parents who were atheists didn’t appreciate it and threatened to sue the school, PTA meetings were called, lines were drawn blah blah blah, we ended up singing a half assed version of “Frosty the Snow Man”. Looking back now it couldn’t have been easy for the girl to come back to class with a bunch of pissed off third graders.

2. Nathan Zimmerman (i’m using his full name because he was such an asshole LOL). We went to high school together and we were in the same a.p. english class for all four years. He was an atheist, incredibly smart but also completely arrogant. He thought all other religions were stupid. He didn’t raise his hand in class he would simply purse his lips and raise his pencil LOL funny the things you remember.

3. Tried to date an atheist because he was super hot and how we met was just crazy. But it didn’t work out. Because again he was completley arrogant and thought he knew better then ALL religious people.
Him: Religion is just something people made up to help them feel better about there miserable lives
Me: What’s wrong with that?
(it also didn’t work out because he made shitty music and that’s also a dealbreaker) I ran into him recently (a year after we parted) and he tried to school me on the healing power of crystals LOL

4. A very good friend and ex roomate of mine is an atheist. We have a blast together and don’t talk about religion much at all. Example she was just here for a visit last weekend and I said I would pray that she find a parking space close to my apt. To which she replied “you do that, i’ll just look” lol. I prayed she looked and we found the closet space ever. HA

sorry for my gigantic post but this blog got me thinking. I like everyone and respect everyones choices just don’t make me feel bad or stupid for mine and I will do the same for you.

Now what was the question again? oh yeah would i marry an atheist? no but we could look for parking together :0)

I would date a vampire before I date an atheist. At least then I can get my neck-biting/-sucking game on. Props to True Blood.

I commented on my derision for some aspects of organized religion on Belle’s blog. That’s a different story. I think it’s less an all or nothing deal as far as my relationships than a varying degrees. I’m a spiritual person but by no means a Christian. That said, having gone to Catholic school and been around religious people in the South, I know how important religion is to many people. It makes them feel good, gives them hope, community, joy, etc. So I’ll always respect someone’s faith, whateve it is. But the reality of the situation is that most people aren’t really religious enough to make this a dealbreaker. They may technically “be a Christian” but if you’re still drinking, fucking, and swearing, what difference does it really make to your relationship if you end up with a non-observant Jew who eats bacon sandwiches all day and works on the Sabbath? (BTW, jewish girls tend to have fatties. Just thought I’d mention) Now if you’re a hardcore Seventh Day Adventist or Pentacostalist, well then, yeah, maybe you and Grand Mullah Omar might have too many irreconcilable differences to form a functioning partnership. I could probably have a relationship with most moderate religious people, but the people on the far end of their religious spectrum are probably better off being with someone who shares their religious views. Also, just as much as I hate judgmental religious people, self-righteous atheists annoy the shit out of me as well. It’s fine to have your beliefs and be proud of them, but trying to down other people for their beliefs deserves a Perez Hilton slap in my book.

This ones tough. because i, like many it seems, give a big suspicious eye toward organized religions. I try often for my own peace of mind to live a life that is good and pure and full of love. I make attempts to see that it is love among people that create good things. To put hope and credit good things to some higher power i suppose is just as good as not to, so i suppose if it helps one live a similarly “good” life then so be it. Do You. To assume that lack of belief in something bigger than a human being is somehow “missing out” or doing “wrong” is a bit unfair.

Choosing Atheism as your own philosophy may carry just as much peace of mind because think about it: You dont worry about which God or gods to follow and you dont need to concern yourself with which organizations rules to adhere to. Choosing atheism shouldn’t be frowned upon or attacked. Its a philosophy jut like anything else. A moral code, if you will. Does it mean atheists are evil? No, despite what people may try to do to convince you (fanatic evangelists on the subway, im looking your way)

Ive always maintained that to beleive in some greater power like a God was pure narcisism. Why does it have to be a man? Why a woman? Why a human-like at ALL? God gets angry or expresses love etc etc. You think God looks like US, puny humans? Why not a giant bear or a mighty wind?

Moreover, ive always had issue with the term “God-fearing”. If God is all about love and harmony, why then should we FEAR it?

God to me is the unknown. Its the mystery that humans cant explain. Its the rain falling, its the sun coming up everyday. It doesn’t have to be some bearded guy floating in the sky. That’s just clouds, haha.

To me, Hope and Faith and Belief are your minds’ method of survival. When the going gets rough, your mind wants to continue on. If humans want to attribute it to a Buddha, a Christ, or some scientific proof, so be it. Personally i think faith is for people who need answers. I for one am at peace with the unknown.

…and to answer the main question. Would you date an atheist? Sure why not? I would date anyone that displays tolerance and an openness to other people despite their personal beliefs or lack there of

Would i date anyone that is so dedicated to their own philosophy that they are willing to look down on me or not accept the philosophy of others? Definitely NO.

No…….be equally yoked my friends!
Being that Religion is man made but spirituality is innate….understand that…..I’m not too big on religion but I LOVE the LORD…please don’t confuse the two…….. folk who know the LORD know that religion can often take you so far from the GOD its not even funny!!!!!

Atheists are all around you in America. The founders of this country weren’t Christian, they were largely deists. Both of our current President’s parents were non-believers, as was he until around the time he entered politics. I was closeted for awhile, calling myself “spiritual” to not risk rejection, then agnostic, which is less offensive to most. I came out a couple years ago after having my son, because I didn’t want him thinking atheism was something I’m ashamed of. As suspected, loved ones abandoned me en masse. It was and is painful, but it cleared my life for people who genuinely loved me to come in. Some religious, some not.

As for coping; if I believed the reason I survived abuse, neglect, the foster care system, a drug addicted mom with AIDS, etc, was due to Rays of Favor from Saturn, it wouldn’t make it true, however strongly I believed it. Ironically, I have friends who believe in a god BECAUSE of my life story. Even when they know I haven’t uttered a prayer beyond “bring it”, they can’t accept people can survive what I have without having faith. And to be clear: I didn’t LOSE belief in a god because of my life. My atheism came first. The only reason I won’t detail it here is because I’m writing a book about it. You’ll all buy it, right?

Finally, to expound on why I am no longer willing to date religious men, it’s because I honestly have come to view religious belief as a socially accepted mental illness. Plus, if I ask someone “how do you reconcile the similarities of the Jesus story with the ancient Egyptians’ (or countless other) stories of virgin births”, the response is usually *crickets*. At the very least, know what you’re believing in and where it came from. Why do you call it Easter? Why is Christmas 12/25? You’re actually embracing pagan, earth-worshipping ideas, and most of you don’t even know. That’s insane to me. I’ve studied your books and history. You should try it. If I don’t respect someone intellectually, the relationship won’t happen. And as soon as a grown man says something like “the Lord said to me…”, all goes dry. It’s a travesty that the descendants of enslaved Africans cling to the master’s religion, but not a mystery. The idea of being a slave was beaten into our ancestors for hundreds of years; of course many now are enslaved to an invisible master, choosing not to read books that would liberate them, and cursing those who dare leave the plantation of Christianity. Black atheists have been around equally as long, fighting for our people’s minds. Look it up if massa lets you.

So sorry that you lost a husband, really. However, I don’t see how you can ignore that fact that you truly were not ever alone the world isn’t empty. Friends and family (i”m assuming you have both) encouraged you too and prayer helped you too but you can’t totally link talking to god with keeping you from meds? But it did play a part for you.

Your second example you said had some grants but not enough and attended the financial aid/enrollment were awarded a full-ride scholarship a student had just given up to go somewhere else. You were determined to get done, you attended a financial aid seminar. If you’d not gotten a full-ride, since you sound so determined here would you have looked at the next viable option, work study a job or whatever option you had left? After all you got on the plane anyway without having the full amount needed you decided that you were not going to let money be an obstacle. You prayed but if you stayed at home it wouldn’t have happened. You had to be there to make it happen.

You asked in a previous post what does an atheist do when a situation seems hopeless and just like you I don’t (now) have enough money for school I can’t afford books often, I try every campus option and if all else fails which happens at times and I can’t get any money I make sure the professor puts a book on reserve and stay in the Library. If I can’t afford enough groceries (I’m a parent too of 1) I do with less. I search for online opportunities to make money, 1 day jobs from Craigslist whatever. I’m facing hopeless situations a lot but I keep going to the next thing. You pray to god and that helps you feel at peace but I don’t (no big deal) I doesn’t make either better or worse but I work harder and say what can I do now and sit and think and go…I don’t sleep to figure out options, I talk to people who may no of resources I’m overlooking, walk more so I can save gas…whatever it takes. You see I refuse to see a situation as hopeless only a temporary setback even if that set back seems to go on for a year or more. I focus on the end result but that’s just me. A lot of people get in what seems a hopeless situations no matter if they believe in god or not so fail some don’t but its about each persons determination to life I think. Your obviously determined to succeed and believe in god. I am determined to succeed and don’t believe in god. But I know you and I could point out people who we’ve known in life and have no determination whether they believe in god or not. Some people just don’t want to try and some do and we do. We do make our own way.

@ Elle

Well, the question about “where do all these people come from” was a facetious. BUT it was prefaced with this:

“Furthermore, ideologies about religion, God and the afterlife are the basis of our society in the States. “God bless America” is a common mantra politicians pepper their speeches with. US currency has “In God we trust” plastered across it. Basically, it’s pretty darn hard to avoid religion. Still, according to Atheist Revolution, there are an estimated five million atheists in America alone. That’s a lot of Godless souls.”

Point being, in America—US specifically, which is where I was able to find the 5 million number for—religion is jammed down our throats like I noted in the above and you did as well. With that in mind, it boggles my mind that there are a reported 5 million in the States and I’ve only come across 2 that I can remember in my 32 years. So while the question of “where do they all come from” may seem simple, it’s a matter of how do so many people break the norm in a society where no faith is frowned upon. The second part of that being is that belief in no belief something that gets passed on by like minded individuals pairing up and then raising children to believe the same non-belief. Giving you the train of thought, does it still seem like a “ridiculous” question?

Not saying people don’t have their own way of thinking over here, but the great majority teaches (or brainwashes) you to believe in something so I was shocked to see that 5 million broke norm and came to conclusion of atheism. Like I said, most people die for religion so it takes a special kind of person (unless they were raised atheist) to put all that aside, IMO.

As for the one-sided questions, as always I just rattle off a few questions to spark the conversation. We’re all able to break off in other directions and ask different ones. I just provide the springboard. I truthfully don’t expect the average person to sit and answer every single question but I also know that not everyone will appeal/relate to every reader so I provide a few for variety.

But if you feel they were one-sided this time, what question would you like to throw into the mix? What did I miss?

the issue is as simple as this: have respect for the various religions of the world and the people who observe them. the First Amendment of Freedom of Religion is brilliant because it teaches us to respect other people’s religion.

religion isn’t the problem, it’s RELIGIOUS FANATICISM that’s the problem. people trip over their own religion to the point of dismissing others’.

“In the event that you have a child with someone of a different religion, how would you decide what faith your offspring would follow?”

i would merely teach my children wisdom and reality regarding all things, not just select things.

I could date just about any damn body right now. Just kidding.

I don’t think I could date an atheist. I’ve dated people who were neutral on the subject and their neutrality bothered me some. A man that loves GOD is a turn on to me. I believe in a man being the head of household. The proper alignment, as I’ve been taught, is Jehovah, Jesus, husband, wife, and children. So I don’t feel the marriage could be complete without proper the proper alignment and I’m not into conversion…

@Elle

The “big deal” is that religion (especially in America) is usually taught to a person very early on (before their own reasoning ability is fully developed). And often times, a whole bunch of fear, guilt, and threatening gets thrown into the mix along with morals/values, so you have a lot of grown people who are afraid NOT to believe in the religion of their childhood b/c they fear eternal damnation or some other horrible retribution from a disapproving God(orwhatever). So telling someone you are a non-believer challenges them to rethink their own beliefs. IF anything you say has merit or seems logical, then they begin to question their own beliefs (and questioning is antithetical to faith), which is a very scary thing b/c…see above.

I have noticed that people who classify themselves as spiritual but not religious are the most relaxed and open-minded philosophically (and un-judgmental).

My 2 cents.

@DC

I have never “hidden” where I live. Why would I? Au contraire, I have mentioned it openly in my responses to blog posts in the past. Apparently you missed those. I am from the land of Mercedes, Heidi Klum and the Autobahn – haha, and the Pope, how ironic is that? Since you wanted to keep score and all

I don’t think I’ve ridiculed anybody. If I did, I apologize. It certainly wasn’t my intention.

@NWSO

I thought the discussion Lonias, Emotional and Paulette were having included interesting aspects you could have addressed. Like how do we cope when life throws us a curveball. I thought that was an honest question from somebody who seemed to really be interested in seeing how an Atheist “ticks”. After all it should be about exchanging thoughts and ideas, learning about other lifestyles and “belief systems” if you will. The questions asked seemed to solely address the people who believe in God and how they view Atheists. That’s all.

@Jazzy

Yea, I’ve noticed that too about people who consider themselves to be spiritual.

@Elle

I hear you, but I didn’t treat this one any different than any other. I write the piece, edit the piece, find pics for piece, and throw out questions that jump out to me. I don’t expect to pose every imaginable question that can be included in every topic, that would wind up being a whole other blog unto itself. I leave that up to folks like yourself and the other readers to add their two-five cents and fill in the gaps.

Could I have added more Elle-friendly questions? Sure. But I just went with what popped up in my head. The main question was posed as would you date an atheist, because like I said I haven’t come across many atheists and had no idea you or any of the other folks that came out were. Didn’t expect the atheist massive to be representing so hard. lol

Now if the question was would you date an religious fanatic the line of questions would have been all different. Maybe you could write that one as a guest blog.

“was due to Rays of Favor from Saturn, it wouldn’t make it true, however strongly I believed it.”

I spit a little coffee on my macbook just reading this. Hilarious.

To the religious people, serious question. There’s often an attribution of Godly intervention to the good things in life: Got that scholarship, won the game, got a new job. But how do really religious people deal with the bad things? You’re an observant Jew in Tel Aviv and your family gets blown to pieces by a suicide bomber. You’re a faithful Muslim in Darfur and your kids are raped and killed by the Janjaweed. You lose the game to a team that cheated. How does all that work?

Yeah I hate when athletes say God was on there side. Nigga Please there are people starving and dying all over the world you think he gives a shit you made a last second jump shot?

Anslem-Thank you for your post. This is such a heated topic. Just the other day a man cut off his penis abroad as he wasn’t allowed to marry his beloved, and that had to do with religion and class. Hindus and Muslims are not allowed to marry because of religion; so I know of a family of Indian heritage & the parents have been together for over 30 years, but are not married. People convert for marriage purposes; knew of former co-workers who converted to Judaism, Catholicism, & Islam to marry their beloveds; some were supported by loved ones, others were not. Now there are some family rifts because of religion.

I consider myself to be Spiritual, not a Christian as I sin every day. And would prefer for my potential mate/boyfriend/companion to be a Spiritual person that has a relationship with a Higher Power as well, regardless of which ‘organised’ set of beliefs they are. My partners have been Methodist, Rastafarian, Baptist, etc. and we have found common ground amongst our beliefs. There will be differences with beliefs, and that’s a given, but hopefully respect & open dialogue exists. I have met Atheists and respect their beliefs, as I would like mine to be respected, and try not to judge as that’s not my place. But I can not see myself being involved romantically with an Atheist.

People from different faiths who have children can work it out as far as rearing their children as I have seen it done within my own circle. They have to decide between themselves w/o familial interference as to what works best for them.

I don’t know how I would fully handle it if I got married and then my husband abandoned his Spirituality, faith & beliefs, and became an Atheist. That would be a huge problem as we wouldn’t be on the same page anymore. Hmmm…for me that’s up there as a high priority.

Hmmmm….thought provoking as usual NWSO.

Well, I personally prefer to think of myself as an “Agnostic Christian”. LOL I was raised a baptist, but with all the hypocrisy in the churches these days, I can’t seem to connect as I used to. So I can’t be a “Christian” in the purest form, but I do believe in a a higher power and I most identify with Jesus. Confused yet? LOL

As far as athiests, I think they get a bad rap. Some of it is how they come off (c’mon, folks die over religion, and you gonna call my beliefs stupid? That’s just rude) and some of it is that folks confuse Athiesm with Satanical worship or all other types of foolywang, and that scares folks. At the end of the day, you can believe what you like. I much rather prefer to think that when I die, my spirt’s goin’ someplace pleasant, rather than down with my body in the ground. Don’t judge me and I won’t judge you.

Now, as far as dating an atheist, I think that’s tuff. Da ThRONe said it, you need (among other things) consensus and compatibility emotiionally, spiritually, mentally, and sexually to work. (and I changed the order on purpose, LOL) Its hard enough with someone of a different religion, but no belief in a higher power whatsoever?!?! Sheesh. Friends? Sure. Dating? Errr… Marriage? Hellznaw…I’m not gon’ be able to do it!

Question to the Non-Atheists:

Given that the Atheist man/woman of your dreams respects your beliefs, celebrates your holidays with you, accompanies you to church/temple/mosque and is overall tolerant and supportive, could you still not see yourself marrying that same person?

And if not, why?

Being that a lot of people are ignorant when it comes to Buddhism because it’s not the “norm” especially for a black person. You are automatically labeled an atheist! in my experience.

Anyway, it would be very difficult for me to date someone who was not a fellow Buddhist but instead a religious person of a different faith. The clash of ideas and beliefs would be a recipe for disaster. So I only date men who are Buddhists or who are spiritual but not religious when it comes to a different faith other than my own.

Moreover, I believe an atheist is someone who is religious in his/her own right. It is a person who believes in nothing. Therefore, lacking even spirituality.

That just wouldn’t work for me.

@ Elle: If I get married in a baptist church with the whole ceremony and erything, are they gonna be able to do that? Are they willing to let me teach our kids about religion? Are they gonna roll their eyes when I pray over my food? If they can live with me living as a person with a belief in something with no judgement, then possibly.

LMAO @ the pic….”OH SCIENTIFIC METHOD”!

No sciencetology people out there? lol

@ NWSO…I have no idea why you labeled me an atheist.Explain yourself.

Like I said…I don’t want to be in any box.I am living my best life.respecting my inner voice and the people around me…regardless of what religion they choose to or choose not to practice.

The only thing I can’t stand…honestly…is the cultist obsession with things that not only sounds unreal…it’s borderline impossible.Jesus Christ was born of a virgin who remained a virgin after she gave birth??…wtf…makes no sense.i had to fuck to get pregnant…and after my daughter pushed her almost 7 lb body through my vagina…there was no way I could still be a virgin.And frankly…Mary seems to be the only person that has ever magically accomplished this.Why??

One day when you have a child and they ask you …”What does God look like??Papa can you call him up on the phone so I can ask him why my best friend died…what are you going to tell your kid??

Do me a favor y’all…stop labeling me.Paulette is a human being.Thanks.

@ Angel…As you have aptly indicated, Americans don’t tolerate atheists very well, as your own family experience demonstrates, though that seems a bit more than I would expect to occur in most families. Atheists may indeed be all around, but if they’re in the closet as you once were, that makes them nearly invisible and therefore easy to discount. I don’t say that is right, but it is what it is.
@ Elle..I have read many posts by you and do not recall ever seeing you say where you were from…the clues you recently provided do indeed resonate and there is no doubt that Germany has a very complicated history of non religious actions that to this day, taint Germans for their over zealous behavior of the past, regardless of where the current pope was born and reared. Germans are not seen as a very welcoming or open culture, especially on race matters..go figure.
@ Angel, I notice you said President Obama’s parents were non believers, but we all know that differs from claiming one is agnostic or atheist. What exactly was your point? A person can call themselves ‘religious’ and a non-believer of Christianity or other organized religions, but that differs from being an atheist, which some may think your statement implies about the presidents parents…..and your acceptance of ‘other versions’ of the origin of Christianity and /or religion does not make that information true, accurate or relevant. It just makes it something you find easier to believe. My uncle was a believer of the Moorish faith..I’ve heard many a tell about this and that…the seemingly incoherence of slaves taking the masta’s religion, the virgin birth being like other sects religious dogma, etc. And this data provides ‘logical proof’ that christianity ain’t for black folks, or that Christianity is another religion in disguise…..Well, scientist do not know precisely how the pyramids were built and they can’t fathom how to rebuild them without modern tools and equipment….It’s a mystery. Some things in the bible and Quran can not be logically explained, you either believe the narrative, or you don’t, but you can still believe the over riding narrative to a point where you claim it as true and factual…..Some things are mysteries, some things people haven’t applied the time and effort to learn, but American’s in general, tend not to want to pursue information in other facets of life, as well. Many people don’t know who their congressional rep’s or senators are….AND that means? People are simple…sometimes lazy….sometimes not moved to find shyt out…Bcuz you were moved to learn about various religions–does that make you “better” or more wise? You feel smarter now that you can be smug and arrogant sounding?
If you were restricted to ONLY dealing with Atheists and Agnostics, you think you’d enjoy the life you’re enjoying now? Think you’re life would be as full and rich? Think you’d be on this blog? Just wondering how you Agnostic/Atheist “Gods” manage to mingle with failed Christians and religious persons..

I know some atheist. I respect their decision but I would not date an atheist. I just don’t see how that would even work.

@Paulette

Come on, P, I didn’t label you an atheist. I simply shouted you and Da ThRONe out when I wrote “I understand how blind faith doesn’t sit well with a lot of people.”

To my recollection, both of you have stated how blind faith doesn’t make sense to you, just as your most recent comment appears to reiterate. BUT I never said neither you or he were atheists. Y’all are just two separate and opinionated people who appear to share a similar train of thought on this issue.

if you, or anyone else, took it to mean I was labeling y’all atheists that wasn’t my intention or what I wrote. You know what happens when people ass-ume…

lmao……Come on, Paulette….U wanna go unlabeled? Naw, shortee, U gettn a label up in here! You’re a New Yorker, for christ sakes! You should know labels are important….black, white, cablasian, male, female…we gotta tag and bag ya! Sorry, but that’s just how we do…And actually, despite the rare disclaimer I’ve read up in here, where someone claims to live in a pure, ethnic neutral country, THAT’s how we do the WORLD over…Ask the Mexican American who was quarenteed in China bcuz he had a fever and they associated it with swine flu….ask the nazi related bigot who shot the black security guy in the jewish holocaust museum……the world over, we do labels sweetie…

In a country like America , the only thing that stops you from being with a person from another faith is yourself. in countries like India, there is a whole community of people that will stand in your way, and physically interfere in an inter religious union. there have literally been assaults on couples, attacks on the boy and the girl that should dare to do otherwise. people have to elope in order to marry or be with someone from a different faith,class or background.

the biggest religion in India , Hinduism , is largely individual. if you want to go to a temple you go. there is no one day of the week , that requires compulsory attendance. there is no concept of conversion. no rules as such. but the fanaticism that is baseless over powers all reason.

the concept of atheism has not reached the masses. the above picture , is limited to rural areas. thankfully in big cities you see barriers dissolving and a general liberalisation in terms of beliefs and norms, but to most Indians , and south Asians , its not up to them to choose if they could or could not be with an atheist or a fanatic.

hopefully my whole FYI speech above helps people see that there is so much more to people than belief. and appreciate that , you get to choose who you want to be with. it should not matter what each of us attribute our good deeds to, if its a higher being or just doing the right thing , at the end of the day , its humanness and humanity that perseveres.

@Brandon St. Randy

“To the religious people, serious question. There’s often an attribution of Godly intervention to the good things in life: Got that scholarship, won the game, got a new job. But how do really religious people deal with the bad things? You’re an observant Jew in Tel Aviv and your family gets blown to pieces by a suicide bomber. You’re a faithful Muslim in Darfur and your kids are raped and killed by the Janjaweed. You lose the game to a team that cheated. How does all that work?”

Good questions. But you must not know many strongly religious people if you’re asking these questions. Haven’t you heard of “the devil made [me, him, her, it] do it?” Yea…and the Devil is something completely separate from God. Even though God is all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful and THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS. God is never given credit for “negative” occurrences, even though those same people believe in the concept of divine intervention for everything else. Most (monotheistic) religions that I know of have concepts of “devil” (bad) and “God” (good), although the names are different across religions.

This question wasn’t asked but I’m gonna answer it anyway.

As an agnostic who attended several religious schools (along with non-religious schools) and was raised in an inter-faith home, I refuse to date a closed-minded person – regardless of his religion. If that person cannot co-exist with other people’s philosophies, then I’m out. I have dated Baptists, AME’s, Muslims, Catholics, and fellow agnostics. What we all have in common is the shared belief that people have a right to believe what they want. No conversions/proselytyzing in my relationships going either way! That said, my first ex is strongly Christian (and growing more religious with each passing day). He recently told me that he would not date anyone who isn’t Christian b/c of how strongly he feels about his faith. Obviously, his opinion on this has changed over the years since we dated. That was a very interesting conversation…

I am all for love and acceptance! But I really dont see how two people fully committed to two different religions can be in a relationship. First question how do you raise your kids. If you dont brainwash your kids most likely they wont just choose a religion.

And this is my biggest question to religious people if you arent going to practice your beliefs to the best of your ability then why even follow it? If it isnt serious enough to live your religion then your wasting your time.

Finally @daThrone, you made a point I can agree with:

“And this is my biggest question to religious people if you arent going to practice your beliefs to the best of your ability then why even follow it? If it isnt serious enough to live your religion then your wasting your time.”

I don’t understand half-assed religious people, either. Either you go all the way in or you don’t. Religion is just another word for personal philosophy. If you don’t believe your own philosophy, then what are you doing labeling yourself under that philosophical umbrella?

It’s sad to me how much people inherit their political, religious, etc beliefs from their parents without ever questioning what they’re taught. Even when their ACTIONS show that they don’t really believe what they claim to believe.

I believe a religion is supposed to fit you. Not the other way around.

All People Are Born Atheists until taught otherwise by whoever their parental units are. Would I date an Atheists? ….Hell yeah! (pun intended).

Kudos to all the Atheist who are brave enough to say who they are.

As I sit and write this a woman overheard a side conversation with a co-worker about euthanasia and felt she had to inform us on our rights as human beings do not include the taking of our own lives, so says her god.

I HATE it when someone feels the need to let me know how much better they have it or are than me because they are of a faith.

There’s sooo much I could write here but suffice it to say, I went through the marriage thing (almost anyway), when her family found out that was the end of that. I’ve had dates get up and walk out, people physically try to attack me, accusations of devil worship, spontaneous screaming at me at the ways and word of the lord.
I own a Torah, Bible and Q’uran, none of them mention my ancestors. Some of the stories are pretty lame and they are some of the most violent books I’ve ever read (want proof, stop reading passages only pointed out by your clergy and are popular).
I am a devout Atheist. What does that mean? Keep your faith to yourself unless we’re bonding and working things out.
Blind faith is the fuel of hitler, the kkk, the catholic church, it asks of you but one thing. Only think as we say (*sic* Sankofa, kill off all the believers of other things and re-educate their children how we want them too, google W. Lynch).
If ever I have children, I will present them the world, I will guide them as a parent or parents if that be the situation. I will allow them the “free will” to choose what they want if it suits them. Not force feed, then say, oh now they can choose afterwards.
I got lucky, the fear factor brainwashing didn’t take. I learned that that world can get along apparently, but the religious folks won’t let it.
But we Atheist are the labeled as, immoral, non-discerning between right and wrong, having little or no value system(s).
I present to you the reason one would think about that is arrogance/ego. Much like the kkk, and hitler pointed out that the jew or the darkie couldn’t possibly have morals and values, faith based peoples speculate that because they were brought up a certain way, it’s the only way they know hence they only way period. Kick rocks, eat a d***. Ask somebody. Your assumptions without discussion are asinine at best based on one upness and communistic thinking. There’s honey in your hive sure, but there’s a world outside of it full of other things. What are you really afraid of?

Here’s an interesting quiz to take to see what your beliefs *really* are…

http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/Quizzes/BeliefOMatic.aspx

My top 5 results are:

1. Neo-Pagan (100%)
2. New Age (92%)
3. Unitarian Universalism (88%)
4. Mahayana Buddhism (71%)
5. Liberal Quakers (69%)

After reading through the descriptions, I identify most with New Age and Unitarian Universalism.

@M A R C R OO S E L E R

I like the way you think. Did your parents neglect your religious upbringing or did you convert to atheism from a religion? Once NSWO lets my quiz link go through, I’d be interested in seeing your results to the quiz.

@Jazzy

It wasn’t me, the spam catcher is just super sensitive so anytime someone posts a link it flags message as spam. I only check spam catcher a few times a day so all I need is a heads up or I release it when I happen to see it.

Thanx for heads up, I had no idea what your percentage comment was about. LOL

@dc: i generally don’t entertain questions that include “what, you think you’re better/smarter than me?” statements, but i will respond to your last. i don’t solely deal with atheists or agnostics, and i’m pretty happy. i was disowned by the relative who rescued me from my mother, and i’m happy. i was disowned by the family who unofficially adopted me out of foster care, and i’m happy. joy is an inside job that i’ve chosen to be good at. i don’t attribute my happiness to the people around me, nor hold them responsible for sustaining it. my best friend is a christian who, a few years ago, watched her 3 month old son die after struggling with a heart condition his whole life. i don’t want to disarm her of the one thing that gets her through her tough moments: the belief that they’ll meet again in heaven. i love her, and my other christian friends, because they’re beautiful people (and i love lovin’.) as for dating, i do require that potential mates aren’t turned off by my insatiable curiosity, don’t say “you think you’re so smart dontcha, readin’ all your little books”, and who i can learn from and grow with. if someone tells me that without religion they’d be robbing, stealing, killing, or otherwise emotionally or socially maladjusted, i don’t judge them for it, but i believe them. and i don’t date them.

Angel:
Stick to your guns. In my 39 years of life I must say I have a very diverse group of friends and am willing to learn of them and teach them of me. Fuck ‘em if they won’t accept you for who you are.
I accept the fact that everyone comes with their own criteria as far as, what love is and what it would take for them to be with someone.
But don’t dictate your personal truth to me and call it law.
If you and your beliefs really did believe in love and loving etc. Doesn’t it only make sense that as human beings we find mutuality in what that entails for us as individuals?
I remember as a kid asking my mother, “if this god thing is love, then what’s the deal with you can only love within your religion?”

@angel

“Energy is neither created nor destroyed. It is simply transformed from one form to another.”

I think this should give hope to all people for some form of an afterlife!

@MARCROOSELER

Marry me!

@DC

I don’t think you were around back when I mentioned it. It was pretty much Da Throne and myself hogging the blog … good old days

Excuse me? Do you truly think “my” country is more racist than “yours”? Number one, racism exists everywhere around the globe. Number two, if any country has learned from it’s past time mistakes in that department it is Germany. Number three, don’t believe the hype – unless you have spent a reasonable amount of time in another country.

Sorry NWSO for being off topic but that one irked me.

@angel
“if someone tells me that without religion they’d be robbing, stealing, killing, or otherwise emotionally or socially maladjusted, i don’t judge them for it, but i believe them. and i don’t date them.”

Deep!

Well the Bible says “thou shall not kill without reason” so all the members that burned and killed non-believers probably figured they had a valid reason to do it.

A historical study of organised religion is not pretty.I bet the bible toters aren’t reading the passages where their God commands wars and the killing of innocent women and children.I can’t practice anything that believes I’m lesser than a man.Even devout atheist are sexist.they are other elements at play when dealing with another human being…religion might turn out to be a minor issue compared to the other stuff.

My brother was murdered and my Christian friend told me “God only gives you what he knows you can bear”…….what bullshit.Are you serious?…nobody that loved me would do that just to prove a point.God didn’t murder my brother and he most definitely didn’t bring him back to life.

A serious question for people who believe in God.Is God only there for you in times of tragedy??How do you justify the reason why the tragedy happened in the first place??

A serious question for Anslem…Do you feel that God made sure you lost your last job because HE has bigger plans for your future??Does he whisper to you at night the ideas for Wet Wednesdays??Would he even approve of Wet Wednesdays??

1. Secular Humanism (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (93%)
3. Neo-Pagan (80%)
4. Nontheist (80%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (78%)

Here you go Elle and do a search on Facebook for my name (no spaces between letters).

Dathrone: If your god is this energy and ever was, then that is an existentialism point of view. Only difference is anthropomorphism is highly at work. for example, the energy must be smiling at me, he left prince and took michael. Or the other way around, this god thing has “a plan” for michael ’cause he knew the comeback was doomed hence taking him now helped him greatly.

By the way, if there is already a “plan” written that can not be altered, then all the characters involved can’t possibly have free will, they are in fact reading the script and going along. Hence, by that logic, Idi Amin was reading a script, pedophiles are reading that script, wasn’t the choice of the rapist’s free will, it’s part of “god’s plan” hence, no free will, simply someone is trying to usurp the will of religion…whatever that is.

@ M A R C R OO S E L E R

Dude that was Albert Einstein theory of energy.

Did your parents neglect your religious upbringing or did you convert to atheism from a religion?
Jazzy.

My mother realized when I was 5 that I was not being brainwashed effectively, constantly asking questions unfitting of a child. Such as, “if you don’t know where things come from, why don’t you just say I don’t know and not get this imaginary friend?”
Or, “so if I don’t know an answer to something just say “god knows” or god did it or something like that. But what’s this god thing and how come he doesn’t like people of color?
As a 5 year old it didn’t make sense to me that a “god” thing that’s all loving would choose only one group of people and not all, and on top of that neglect regions globally and not tell them either about it’s presence. But I digress.
My mother and father placed me in Catholic school under the premise of I was smarter than my siblings. She convinced my father of this as far as I know and he went along not knowing of my atheism. I played along for my mother’s sake but catholic school made it worse. Though my mother loved me I sometimes think that she wanted me to acknowledge her god thing.
Anywho…she passed, and I thought about what it would be like to believe and it never made sense, all that kept coming up is, only weak minded and selfish people need this external source to hopefully bring them happiness. What I needed to do is learn who I am and where I fit in and happiness is mine if I should choose it, not earn it, or set a goal to it.

Lastly, it usually is also assumed that my being an Atheist was a conversion process, rather, it was more of WTF is this? Believe of burn, do or die, don’t do and get no love, you don’t bow down and praise you lose. The ego and balls on this god thing presented to me were soooo infinitely massive I laughed inwardly at the notion that this thing had attitude issues and was jealous and all this other crap, yet so superior.

Ok, this is lastly. There is a concept out there that says the god thing is a manifestation of the ego. The arrogance that is confidence and the good intentions are the god thing and the bad intentions and wrong doings mirrored in the face of the devil as the representative of the egos blaming on something else for its own weaknesses.
The End

Exactly…theory
Theories are assigned genius, but until proven, they are simply educated guesses, such as, this god thing is mad at us, let’s throw a virgin in the volcano.

Prior to Einstein, Galilieo said pretty much the same thing as did Socrates and his sublings after him.

I am who am, is existentialism at its best. I’ve always been and always shall be, exnihilo, from nothing.

Nothing from nothing leaves nothing,

M A R C R OO S E L E R’s theory as channeled by Billy Preston

Enter a 5 year old at sunday school or anywhere and the only question requiring an answer is “why?”

Let’s just supposed because the god thing just is like it says…that is existentialism. The other stuff, Ego. Worship me of suffer the consequences, lame.

Maybe the thing that we all agree on is sex…cause these blogs BLOW up ((no pun intended)) when it’s sex talk…religion…not so much.

@Paulette

Actually, you’re incorrect on the blowing up topics. If you’re talking about comments, take a look at this week. This post has over 70 comments while Wet Wednesday only had over 30, the least comments of the week. From my recollection, abortion, male/female perspectives and religion are some of the most commented.

@Paulette earlier

You have me confused with or “labeled” as a religious fanatic or something. LOL

I never said anything about talking to God or him talking to me (in a physical sense). I don’t get that deep with it. As I said in the last post on religion, I believe in a Higher Power because I was taught to. Right or wrong, I decided for myself that it’s better to believe than to not believe. My choice my decision.

Now when I sit back and wonder my next check is coming from and feel down, then at the end of the week my phone rings with multiple opportunities for work I’ll thank God for looking out. You may call it luck or chance, but i’d like to believe positive energy produced positive results. It doesn’t hurt me to say thanx, just like it doesn’t hurt you to pat yourself on the back in a similar chain of events.

@NWSO…then based on that why not ASSume God is the reason you’re unemployed in the first place??If he can “look out” to make sure you receive checks he can “not look out” and make sure you don’t get any.

I ask questions cause I’m confused by the thinking behind some of these things.AND especially since I have a 7 year old asking me questions…daily…she WILL be like Marco and be like “But mommy…that doesn’t make any sense”…and I have NEVER told her God isn’t real.I allow her to go to church with her grand parents.

I’ve told her Santa Claus is a myth and the tooth fairy is her parents putting money under her pillow.I do not want her believing a higher power is pulling strings…her best bet is to experience all that life has to offer without a chain around her feet.

@paulette

I’m not super-religious (like I said previous post more spiritual). But you can liken your question to when people say Things happen for a reason. Some could look at that statement as it is or others can call it divine intervention. In case of my getting laid off, I don’t look at it as a bad thing so if you want to force me to say, that was a blessing from God. Okay, but I’d just say it was my time to go and I’m at peace with that. Bigger and better things.

Like I said, i’m not a devote religion person so I’m really not the best qualified to debate the intricacies of religion/faith etc. But if it makes me feel better to just say thank you to myself/God/whoever it’s just that something that makes me feel better. That’s why. It may or may not change the course of events, but when I get a string of good “luck” I just like to say thanks. It works for me and keeps me on track, like why were you thinking negatively when you knew deep down you could find a way.

As for your daughter, she is yours and lives under your care, I don’t see it my place to interfere in how you choose to raise her in terms of belief system. What I or even you believe may not even be what she grows up to believe as an adult. She asks you a question you give her the best one you feel. Parents mold their children’s values and give them the skills to make their own decisions

“”Parents mold their children’s values and give them the skills to make their own decisions”"…I wish this was true for my generation…its truer for my daughter’s generation cause most of her friends have rarely ever stepped inside a church.

I did not have a choice about going to church until I was a teenager and even then…I lived in Barbados and I was not exposed to other religions and cultures to question my faith.To even not believe in God at that time scared the shit out of me…I was surely going to hell if the thought even crossed my mind.And I’m sure that’s true for most believers…they think it’s detrimental not to believe.My mother to this day would be mad if I even uttered what I’m saying here.

But I have to say…I was unhappy as a Christian cause I just couldn’t figure out why God did not love me enough to grant me A, B, C and D.The bible told me to have patience and wait…the things I wanted still never came about. Now I take responsibility for the good and the bad in my life…cause I can either embrace whatever or walk away from it.No 2nd and 3rd party conferences.

I’d just like to point out that it’s a pretty crap question to ask. Think about how bigoted it would seem if someone wrote a pontificating article about whether or not to date Jews, or Muslims.

Atheism has no bearing on whether or not a person is a good or bad partner. It’s a silly question, and a silly idea. Would you pretend that someone’s skin color or ethnic origin was relevant? How about asking the question, “would you date a poor person?” “Would you date a disabled person?” Only with atheists does that question seemingly become acceptable.

@Theophage

I dont think thats the case. Religion or lack there of is a choice. I think asking can you date outside of your religion or lack there of is a very valid question.

@Theophage

I’ll assume you’re new here. Actually I have discussed dating someone with a disability on the site before and it was a very enlightening conversation.

Not sure if you read this particular piece in its entirety—in particular the final graph, where the main discussion is laid out. But beyond the headline, is a deeper question about faith and how that plays into relationships. That’s particularly true when it comes down to raising children and how do you decide what religion the child is raised under. Or in the case of marrying an atheist, if the child would be raised in a religion at all.

That is actually the point of the discussion, sorry if you missed it or it wasn’t clear in the actual piece.

So I beg to differ religion or a lack thereof does have a bearing in picking a life-mate because of the potential for conflicts in world view.

Laid out in that context does this discussion still seem silly or bigoted?

New voices are always welcome, hopefully you will continue to share yours as I feel as if you’ll have an interesting perspective to share.

I wouldn’t have had a problem dating an atheist, but a non-vegetarian is someone that I could not consider.

For me, hearing a grown man asking why God permitted some negative thing to happen is like hearing a child ask why Santa didn’t bring them that toy they really wanted.

I am an atheist living in the intolerant south (Louisiana) and I am having trouble dating. I am generally seen as a fun, smart, and caring person. When I get in conversations and the god subject comes up…..I tell them that I am atheist because I feel like I HAVE to be honest with everyone. (this is that sense of morality that ppl like me arent supposed to have manifesting itself.) However it seems that I have to pay for it every time this happens. Meaning, the date is going well, they love me, I get “lets hang out again soon”, then “oh you dont believe in God?”, “sure we can go out again soon” ….And…….chance gone. I understand that this is more likely to happen given my environment, but still every one deserves to be happy………is there anything that I can do about this? I’m considering moving…..does anyone have any thoughts on this problem or suggestions of places in America that are more tolerant?

lmao…What does an atheist cry out during sex??…”B*tch your p*ssy is good.”…just like the Muslim and the Christian and the Jew.lmao. I bet a $1Million noone gives a fuck what your religion is if you’re good in bed.

I can only imagine a man saying after I give him some great head “Damn baby…if only you believed in God.” rotfl

@Trigga

What part of Louisiana? Im from New Orleans thats why I ask. You can definitely find love down despite your beliefs!

@ Astra…my current lover is a vegetarian….he pays for my chicken laden dinners.It’s not an issue. There’s so many walls put up it’s a wonder people even date…his shoes are too small…he goes to church on Sundays…he has an accent…he prefers tofu over a good steak…the list goes on.

@Trigga…move to New York.I grew up in Barbados…moving was the best decision I ever made in my life.The religious brainwashing is deep, down and dirty.I don’t even have the back bone to wade in those waters.I am truly a free woman in NYC.No joke.I can be whoever I choose to be. So if I decided to be a rastafarian tomorrow there’s a group here…any religion you want to be a part of is here in these 5 boroughs.And for the most part we all get along.

@paulette

You better stop talking dirty like that you know about my condition!

@M A R C R OO S E L E R
Thanks 4 sharing your results. So Secular Humanism is your top choice? That’s funny b/c I got that result when I first took the quiz almost 5 years ago…I like their philosophy and was surprised that it didn’t show up in my top 5 this time. More people should find out about them, b/c I have a feeling that many atheists and agnostics fall in that category.

NWSO:

Ok, it’s good 2 know it’s not you that’s hating on my extracurricular links.

After reading the back-and-forth between you and Paulette, I see where you’re coming from. In a way, you’re hedging your spiritual bets. You were taught to have certain beliefs. Those beliefs make you feel good and haven’t been disproven to you, so you practice them because you haven’t experienced a better alternative. Am I getting this correct? I like that you leave others to their beliefs, even if they differ from yours.

Paulette seems to be arguing that belief/faith in a God doesn’t make logical sense, especially because only “good” things are attributed to God, while “bad” things are attributed to bad luck, the devil, etc. (as Christians believe).

I’d argue that human beings labeling an event as a “blessing” and “curse” is short-sighted b/c we don’t really know what longterm effects certain events (like unemployment) will have on our lives. That’s the limitation of being human. I can look back on my life and see that what I thought was a hardship was really a blessing in disguise b/c it forced me onto a path that I normally wouldn’t have taken that ended up helping me become better. (And I think this is what Christians mean when they say “Whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” or “He doesn’t give you more than you can handle.”)

I like your post awhile back on how being fired actually helped you focus on your writing, something you had been neglecting in favor of achieving certain financial security. I can relate to that. I believe curveballs are thrown at us to shake us out of a rut, to question our preconceived notions, etc. It reminds me of that saying: “When we plan, God laughs.” Another quote that I like is: “Sometimes the Universe whispers advice to you. When you ignore it, the whispers get louder until it’s screaming in your face in the form of a catastrophe.”

Something that I don’t like about the Christian philosophy that is taught in the churches I’ve visited (but not the actual philosophy of Christ, go figure) is: if you’re good, you will be blessed and if you’re bad, then you will be cursed. Therefore, anything “bad” that happens in your life ends up making you feel even worse b/c that must mean you’re a “bad” person…rather than, say, both “good” and “bad” things happen to everyone – regardless of their personality. I think this is the reason why a lot of Christians become bitter and haterific about others’ success – because it’s like a constant reminder to them that they are not blessed/favored by God. Of course, the new Christianity was taught to African-Americans as a way to explain why we were in the position we were in (b/c we’re inherently unfavored by God) and the slaveowners are in the position they’re in (b/c they are God’s chosen people). Even if this is not taught overtly, it’s the conclusion that any rational Christian would come to…How convenient is it to teach a slave that turning the other cheek is next to Godliness? Meanwhile, the slaveowner is doing as he pleases..committing all kinds of crimes against humanity in the name of God.

It’s no coincidence that every time a group of Europeans planned to colonize a country, they sent missionaries in with a Bible first. I have the most issues with Christianity because of it’s historical context. My next least favorite religion is Islam. Then Judaism. I like Buddhism (minus the ascetic principles). Don’t know much about Hinduism. Or the others.

@NWSO – Perhaps I come on a little strong, but I tend to find that these sort of suitability arguments are at their core rooted in the assumption that one’s core morality and “goodness” as a human being are rooted in one’s spirituality and faith. It gets very tiring to constantly have one’s moral underpinnings questioned – and not only that, one’s very ability to be moral and good. I tend to immediately approach questions like this as an insinuation of the above, regardless of the intention of the questioner – because I find that most of the time, I’m right, at least in part.

Understand where I’m coming from – to me, faith and spirituality are fairly irrelevant. If someone chooses to believe something or another about the world that conflicts with my worldviews, so be it. If it makes them have one view or another on life in general, so much the better. Differences make life better. So, when someone asks “could you…” in that context – it seems to me about as logical as asking if I could date someone with an irrational dislike of toothpicks, or someone with dark hair. I would not say that this quality in a person is indicative of anything; instead I would simply state that it is irrelevant insofar as suitability is concerned.

@ da ThRONe: Im in Ruston, used to go to La Tech and Im actually considering moving to the NO or BR, since I used to go to LSU as well. In addition to my social struggles jobs are not plentiful here…..my business degree means little in this rather small town.

@ Paulette: I’ve been digging your comments and what you’ve shared about your life so far. I had a pretty negative attitude before I read some of the comments from other people who understand my situation a little better than those immediately around me. I’ve considered NYC…..the rent scares me a little….but if I can find work there….why not…Im not opposed to living anywhere as long as I can find a job and be judged a little less. Thats all I need….

@Theophage

Fair enough. Like I said you’re new here so you’re not used to the general format. The title can be a general question or phrase that sets up the basic topic, while the actual body of the post lays out the scenario or real-world application, the questions towards the end focus (or sometimes broaden) the discussion to follow.

In terms of title “Could you..” is more engaging IMO than say… “Atheism in 2009.”

Hopefully you stick around for more discussions

Trigga, it’s interesting that you brought up dating in the South as an atheist. In my experiences dating Southerners, if you simply don’t attend church regularly and don’t want to correct that about yourself, you are labeled as a sinner -> atheist -> Devil worshipper -> undate-able. And this thinking process occurs REGARDLESS of the person’s prior interactions with you up to that point. Or, at least, that’s what I experienced on one date.

Details:

I met a guy one night while at a concert. We clicked immediately, so he asked me what I was doing afterwards. Nothing. So we headed over to go ice-skating. Had a good time. Good conversation. He was a complete gentleman (the way I like ‘em). His mom called while we were out and he was talking me up…We made plans to go out again. That was on a Friday. On Saturday night, he called me and invited me to church service with him the next day. I declined. He asked why (”are you sick?”). I told him that I’d rather not attend b/c I’m not not in the mood to hear the Word.

Him: why not?
Me: b/c I don’t feel like hearing things I disagree with right now.
Him: *long silence* Aren’t you Christian?
Me: No.
Him: *longer silence* Why not?
Me: Because…I don’t believe in all of their teachings.
Him: ok….I don’t get it. You’re so nice. How are you not Christian?

Ok, that’s when I knew we had a major problem. His question basically told me that he couldn’t reconcile me being both a non-Christian AND a nice person, like those two things are mutually exclusive. We spoke for a few more minutes. And I never heard from him again.

@Trigga

The funny thing about christians are the guy the religion is based on preached acceptance and was judge and killed for it! And they do same thing to other people. *Shaking my head*

@Trigga, to answer your last question…if you’re looking for religiously tolerant places in the U.S., CALIFORNIA is definitely for you. Here, nobody cares what religion you practice…as long as you’re a liberal. lol Or try New York. They’re so jumbled up there, they don’t expect any kind of sameness.

Hey Paulette thanks for the shout. Certain things are non-negotiable for me, and even though I stated the vegetarianism thing in jest I was completely serious at the same time. I have had other issues that I would not have compromised on either, athiesm however, as never been one of these.

I understand that having a bunch of pre-conditions limits one’s “availability pool” but that was precisely what I was trying to do.

I’m reminded of one of Bro. Malcolm’s speeches where he said that religion keeps us divided, and that in order to come together we should keep our religions “in the closet”. With that spirit in mind, I would say to Trigga that maybe he should refrain from broadcasting his beliefs for a while, maybe for several dates into the relationsip, or simply when the topic naturally came up. This way people aren’t scared off early on.

@ Jazzy…exactly.It would probably make more sense to me if they said God is responsible for EVERYTHING and roll with it.But they just seems to be acceptance of the good things and the bad things are outside of his power…which doesn’t make sense cause he’s supposed to be the MOST powerful.

It’s confusing to me.Seriously.The more historical research I do the less sense it makes.Cause the events that are celebrated in the Bible aren’t things we would embrace to celebrate today.

I asked some Christians recently “Why was the Bible not continued??Life is still happening.Why would the Vatican hide chapters from the public??I never get any answers…because they never even question the faith.They just accepted the book as truth and left it at that.

They frown at my questions and tell me I’m gonna go to hell for even asking.Instead of saying…you know..i never even thought of that…let me go to my priest and ask him…get back to you when he answers me.

@Astra

Keeping your religious beliefs “in the closet” is not a fair trade when dating in the South, b/c in the South, most people broadcast their religious beliefs in everyday situations all of the time. In my example above, I found out my date was Christian very soon b/c he thought nothing of inviting me to church service with him ON OUR SECOND DATE. For a southern Christian woman, that invitation would have signaled *DING DING DING* marriage material. Knowing the South (yes, LA too), I can guess that Trigga is confronted with religious talk over 1st dinner conversation when his date starts blessing her food,r explaining why Jesus delivered her dream job to her, etc.

@Paulette

You’re asking questions? Yep, you are definitely going to hell. Scratch that. You’re going home because you are surely the devil.

“Philosophy is asking the questions that never get answered. Religion is answering the questions that never get asked.” – Anonymous

If our souls rest in the balance of religion. Why would God pick the least efficient way to make his presense aware to the world. What about the people who know nothing about Jesus. Are they too condemned to hell based on a typo? If that isnt some silly ass shit I dont know what is. If your are a Christian than those are your beliefs!

Also @Paulette

Yep, I agree with you about just lumping everything that exists onto God’s creation plate. But if Christians did that, then there would be no guilt incentive to keep people tithing regularly. B/c let’s face it, it’s really all about the tithing. The goal is not to make people feel GOOD, but to make people feel BAD..then GRATEFUL to the church for turning their lives around -> more tithing.

I agree with what brandon and dc man with a plan said earlier. I want to respect everyone’s opinion, decision etc and I don’t want to push my christianity down anyone’s throat in reference to everything that ever happened to them or vice versa. When lonias commented on ways she felt god was in her life and someone looked at it from their view and pretty much disregarded what she said didn’t feel right to me. Yes I love God and always will. But if you don’t I respect it. I’m pretty sure this will be the last religion blog I’ll read bc it really seems more of a back and forth or beliefs than anything. Like dc man pretty much said, we’re all grown and pretty much set in our beliefs. No one will have an aha moment via this blog or any comment that will change their view. The actual question, no I couldn’t date an atheist. Only because I want my children exposed to religion.

But back to the original topic of dating an atheist…

I would date an atheist…but he’s gotta have some sense that there is something that exists other than the material world. My reasoning? I don’t like the mindset that humans are at the top of the foodchain and that we are all-powerful. It’s very egocentric to me in a dangerous way. Being in tune with me spiritually would mean that he believes that there’s a higher power than humankind – even if we’re not sure what it is, we are the not the end-all, be-all. “A fear of God” is what some religious people call it, which I interpret to mean a fear of something greater than you -> universal law.

Chris Rock has a joke about how people of two different belief systems/lifestyles can’t make it work long-term: “You smoke crack and she goes to church every day? Not gonna work! But two crackheads? Can stay together forever!”

@NWSO:

FYI, I’m about to link to a funny video…

I feel you da thRONe.

@ Jazzy- People down here are very judgmental about ppl different from themselves. Most ppl are nice and welcoming but when you try to date someone or talk about ideas radically different from their own…..ppl then to freeze up and they dont know what to do. That’s unfortunate that you sometimes go through what I go through, although I feel better knowing that its not just me that has to deal with discrimination of this sort. Thanks for sharing your info….. southerners: we’re not all like that…just waaaaay to many of us. BTW I have some friends out in Sacramento and Modesto….I might consider your state, I bet the tarffic will take some getting used to tho…lol

To ppl like P in NYC, Jazzy, da thRONe and others like them- my facebook is Josh Spigner and the yahoo is joshsspigner…..add me if you wish. You all take care.

I think @Paulette and @DaThrone will appreciate this…

Here’s a funny video about an Atheist Meeting God:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68

@Woo

This isn’t a religious blog. This just happens to be a religious post.

“The actual question, no I couldn’t date an atheist. Only because I want my children exposed to religion.”

If you are religious, won’t your child be exposed to religion via YOU? What you really mean is that you don’t want your child exposed to someone who DOESN’T believe in religion (the hypothetical atheist baby’s father).

@ WOO…Do you ever question your faith??Or do you just accept what was taught to you as truth??

I was raised as a Christian myself but the more educated I became the more some things just didn’t add up.Cause when you study the human body and the physical characteristics of things…the Bible contradicts that which is right there in front of us.

I don’t understand everything…and honestly not believing has left me with more unanswered questions.Cause as a Christian I didn’t really have to think about it…i just showed up at church every Sunday and went along with the script..literally.No questions asked.

I think it’s important for both mates in a relationship to at least believe that there is a higher being. I feel that I couldn’t take anyone seriously who doesn’t have some sort of spirituality. Now mind you that Spirituality and Religion is TOTALLY DIFFERENT!!!! I really don’t care for religious people because to me it’s too major and to each is own…….all I’m asking is for us to come together and be able to communicate on some type of spiritual level. I’ve personally dated a Muslim guy and I’m not too keen on that and I’m not saying that all Muslims are bad so don’t KNOCK ME YET! He was practicing Muslim and in the process he was trying to get me to practice and became VERY CONTROLLING and THAT my friends is why I’m no longer with him.
I want to be able to go to church with my significant other, as well as communicate….otherwise don’t waste my time. I know that everyone is not perfect and we all sin but just recognize him….and have some knowledge on it!

@ Jazzy— YES…..down here a girl might bring up God while your dancing in the club with her…..seriously. It WILL happen on the first date. People assume that your Christian to the point that “What denomination are you?” is unfortunately a pretty standard first date question. You understand what im facing here .

@ Astra– I would soooo love to stay away from discussing religion with women, I hope strongly as Im meeting a girl for the first time that I am so interesting that it magically just doesn’t come up…lol. It is just not possible here. As I’ve said before…..its time for me to move.

LoL now I have some reading to do.

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (94%)
3. Liberal Quakers (82%)
4. Neo-Pagan (81%)
5. Theravada Buddhism (76%)

I’m finding it interesting that the self-proclaimed atheists, agnostics, non-denominations, spirituals, etc are getting the same top 5 results (albeit in various pecking orders).

OMG…that video is hilarious.rotfl

I found that the only reason I have begin replying to the Blogs is to have a constructive outlet. It, is funny what you will do in the name of love.
So I had to ask myself what is so imporant about love and our gregarious nature that would have us even possiably considering a change in our religion?
If I was an atheist, then dating an atheist would not matter. Yet considering I actually have very strong belifes (whether I live acording to them a 100% or not) I don’t think that an “atheist ” would want to date me. I can see every meal turing in to a heated discussion of whether I should be thanking my Originator or not. And sex would be impossiable because I am very vocal. (Oh God, Oh yes! ) I hope God doswn’t mind and if He dose he should not have made sex so great! Ha!
Anyhow The most difficult relationship is that of diverse beliefs. My husband and I were both raised Christain I later comverted to Islam, and frettfully have diverted away from the practices but not the belief. Which like you right now has left my husband in puzzlement.
Religion is a preference. A personal one at that. Love of your own ability to decide should trump love of another person. Fact is you came into this by yourself you will leave by yourself. Your religion makes you, you. Whether you belive or not; it’s who and what you are. It’s your moral core. It dictates how you treat yourself and the people and things around you. It dose not matter the title you slap on it it’s your practice.
The person you are loving, (screwing or what ever ), your friends and your family have a choice just as you have a choice. Our choices should be respected. It should be understood that our choices make us who we are whether you love us or hate us it is what it is ! You change that you change who you are, is love worth it?
Maybe I have made alot of changes for my marriage that’s why this blog is an outlet for me. My hubby dose not want me in bars, clubs , gosssiping with a bunch of hens, nor do I hang as tight with the countless male friends that I have accumulated over the years.
I suppose it could get more complicated when it comes to religion simply because when we get involved we expect the other person to conform to us instead of accepting just who they are. And why do we do that anyway. Some one great said ” If two men think alike, then one of them is not needed.”

@Jazzy

God is a dick! LMAO! And the funny things is some people really think that this is how he/she/it operates!

It makes no sense once again if God had a certain set of rules and guidelines that were rock solid and non-negotiable. Why out of billions of people would he/she/it appear (officially) to a handful of people through out history(that is pack with other religions)? And expect that rare handful to convince the rest of the world that there deep rooted beliefs are wrong. Then if that wasnt enough he/she/it would then completely change he/she/it universal rules send his son down to earth and kill him so we can nolonger follow one set of rules(killing in my name, passover, and hanukkah) for another set of rules (turning the other cheek, easter, and christmas *and for the record christmas is a pagan holiday and has nothing to do with Jesus*).

Its beyond me that anybody who takes 5mins to look at it can believe it. And once again if you really believe your religions direction why does so many people half-ass it? Would your “God” still not punish you for fucking off? Once again that is some silly ass shit!

@Jazzy. I’m finding it interesting that the self-proclaimed atheists, agnostics, non-denominations, spirituals, etc are getting the same top 5 results (albeit in various pecking orders).

My top 5 its approximately 100% Atheist (the closest to any deification is Neo-pagan, I’m fine with that as I am Haitian and honor my heritage).

@ Jazzy. I would date an atheist…but he’s gotta have some sense that there is something that exists other than the material world.

Like what?
I don’t think not having a higher power is egocentric (unless I’m reading this wrong).

I tried to read everyone’s comments, I really did, but I had to stop…To me, it seems like a lot of anger towards religious people are coming out. I had gathered from reading this blog, that NWSO wanted to know what people’s personal tolerance was. And it seems that there are a lot of intolerant people, Atheist, and religious people alike. My mother has often told me that its possible to go too far to the right and end up on the left.

For the people who want to resort to name calling, and sow discord, how are you any better than the ones you accuse of ignorance, whether atheist or religious?

I am a Christian. Some people may think that this is an admission to being religious, or just believing in God. I have learned on my faith walk to distinguish between the two. It’s not doing much to say that you believe in God, because the Devil believes in Him as well. But when you decide that you want to adhere to His Word and let your life be a living testament to His works, then you are a Christian. You’ll never have to ask a Christian if they are a Christian, because the way they choose to live their life will be proof of their Faith. It goes without saying, that not everyone that goes to church is a Christian.

Could I date an atheist? After all I have said, Do you think I could?

I don’t think myself superior to anyone because I am a christian. I don’t doubt that an atheist could live a moral life, make sound judgments, Love and endure hard times as well as any person who claims to have faith. I choose not to date an atheist, because I plan to get married one day. And I take marriage very seriously. If we couldn’t make our vows before God then what is the use of wasting each others time? Dating any one that I don’t see as a potential Husband is a waste of time.

The saddest thing to me about this whole discussion is that the non-believers in God actually know more about the history of Christianity than Christians themselves.

@ Lois…you probably can’t read it all cause you refuse to see the light. Humanity did not start with your faith…your faith is falsely claiming to be the chosen people and the originator of life itself.

If you want to see real hatred…read the Bible.Marriage was invented to enable men to own women.There’s no equality between men and women…you have to hope you live in a society that fosters that.The church is reluctantly allowing women to preach….due to social pressures.

I don’t think I’m better than anybody because I stopped being a Christian a long time ago.When I was I knew I was better than everybody cause God told me via the bible that l was chosen.

@Lois

Sweetheart if you blindly follow a religion something is wrong with that. You end up being in South America drinking kool-aid! Or Waco,TX burning up.

Like Paulette mentioned most “Christians” are the least informed about Christianity*coincidence I think not*. Its not bashing its education religion is based on fear tactics and brainwashing! Do your homework before you give your soul!

I have done my homework. I have read the history books. Which seems weird to me how some will take one book at face value, and discredit others. History books were written with the hands of man as well and they can pick and choose what to write about just like they pick and chose which books were entered into the bible. I don’t blindly follow anything. TRUE Christians are not the least informed about Christianity. I have already said that not everyone who goes to church is a Christian. Anything that you are passionate about, you take the time out to know. Any person that claims to be a christian but has not taken the time out to know the bible, its history, is not a christian. Don’t be fooled. It’s like marrying somebody and not be able to tell their birthday, their home town, their hopes and dreams. Why commit yourself to anybody without taking the time to know them?

@ Paulette

Who said anything about hatred? I said intolerant. It’s not always the same thing. and its funny how you said “refuse to see the light” when Jesus is often called “the truth, the way and the light” It has nothing to do with refusing to see anything. There are just some seeds I won’t allowed to be planted in me. People often speak venom without even recognizing it. Anything that is said to destroy, and tear down, I will never accept as truth.

And you’re mixing Christianity with Judaism. Jews were called God’s chosen people. Christianity includes all people, races, and sex as long as they believe in Christ. Please don’t twist the Bible to suit your purposes. You can’t take some of it to prove your point. Either use it as a whole text within it’s context, or not at all. Can I surmise from this that you haven’t read the bible in its entirety?

@ da Throne

everything I said earlier can go for you. Any Book you want to throw at Christianity and use as a reference to question the Bible, was written by Man. Either question all written works or take them all for fact. But there in lies the beauty of being human. We get to think, feel, and choose. Even after all the knowledge you get, if you have no understanding how can you choose what you will believe or not? The same way you read the books on the history of Christianity, and other religions, and chose to take what another man wrote over your own faith. I have read them and discussed them and every time, I wind up choosing to be a christian. This was not some decision thrust upon me by conditioning. I chose this after reading the Qu’ran, Hebrew Bible, and many others. For me, it was an educated decision.

To read the bible in its entirety and still choose to be a Christian is sad.God commanded so many invasions and wars…innocent women and children were killed.

Even within our world today…your God doesn’t give a fuck about his followers.they die just as easily as the other people that don’t worship him.And if he was so powerful why wasn’t the world saved after his son was crucified?

Take a trip to the vatican and see how many people were murdered who spoke against the belief in
God.Ask them to give you copies of the chapters not included in the king James version.

A pregnant virgin? …straight sci-fi.Octavia Butler probably wished she had penned a novel that brilliant.

@Lois

You Believe that God promised land to a group of people he just arbitrary pick. Which just happened to be occupied by another group of people? And instead of God asking this choosen group to learn how to educate and coexist. God tells this group to kill all those people and take the land for themselves. I would much sooner believe that this group of people made it up to excuse there action. Because if God is that petty he doesnt deserve worship!

@Paulette

You beat me to it! LOL

@Lois

As much as you try you can not justify the Bible with logic. Why? Because its BULLSHIT! So go ahead and do with brainwashed people do and say “God work in mysterious ways” if that aint the biggest cop out pharse in the history of the spoken word!

I am not Catholic. I am a Christian. There’s a difference. There is free will. We all make our own decisions. Don’t blame God for People’s choices. We all have to accept the responsibility for our actions. Both good and bad. Christians don’t always make the right choice, we are human just like everyone else. Christians are not infallible. God does care about Us, and the Bible says that we will endure pain and Hatred for believing in Him (I recognize it and I still stand by my choice), but He also gave me a comforter to help withstand the pressure.

@Lois

You realize what Paulette and I are making reference to is in the Bible right? The very same book you think is holy! Were it says God gave the Isrealites very specific orders to kill a group of people(including women, children, and old people) and take there land. How is it you miss this part of the Bible?

Maybe I shouldn’t put all 7 day Adventists in a box, but uuummm for now they’re there. See, I dated one a few years back for a year and a half. We even talked about marriage. Dude knew I was and still am a Buddhist. When the marriage discussion became more frequent, that’s when he wanted to let a sista know he was not compromising on nada. I had no problem with his faith. But I was not going to get married in a church. For what? I clearly didn’t believe in God then and still don’t now. I hoped we could’ve compromised and gone to a hall, even city hall would’ve worked for me. Religious institutions were not hitting the spot. Because I knew we were of different faiths and didn’t want to impose on him/his family/friends. Of course we ended up breaking up. Once married, dude would have wanted us attending church every Saturday, knowing damn well I don’t go to church. Yes that relationship was a waste of time. But I’m very skeptical nowadays when it comes to ppl of a different faith. I will continue to put it out there and let men know where I stand, early. I find myself being much more open minded than the men I come across.

It would be much easier to date a Buddhist. But the ones I know are all taken. I don’t knock ppl’s beliefs. Just don’t try to shove it down my throat.

very interesting conversation. But I’m shocked at how Da Throne and Paulette speak on so much authority.

Paulette…you say Lois will not see the light. What makes you think that? And what light?

Lois, I would caution you too…you’re trying to win over people who have locked their hearts against God. They want to challenge you with logic but think of how illogicall their arguement is. If their is no God…where did everything come from? Did it come from a bang of just the right ingredients? Well let’s place an egg, pint of milk and sugar, and flour in a bag and shake it. How long do you think it will take to pull out a cake? Well, if we crawled out of some primitive soup mix, why hasn’t anything else crawled out with us?
Answer your own questions before you attack ours. You have no answers…but we do. Our God created everything! The world around you screams of intelligent design. Can you not admit that? Do you see anything you could create?

Our God is all wisdom and love. We know you hav ea problem with Him. You represent the world and we are at war with the world. But gues what? We won that war a long time ago when Christ rose from the dead. If you’re not a Chrisitan, you’re living on borrowed time.

You’re lucky that our God loves you so much that He’s trying to save you despite yourselves. You think it’s chance that brought you here?

But you have a choice. You can choose to be an Atheist…but…you better be right. If you’re right, you get to become nothing when you die. If you’re wrong. Well… Sad part…you can’t even pray that you’re right. You have no one to pray to. You’re all alone in this world. But the Chrisitan knows that God will be with us always, even in death. He has not given me a spirit of fear and He watches over me as I sleep. We don’t even fear death. Why? Because our future was promised at the cross. Do you know what that means??? It means that even if you kill me…I’ll still be up by one!

The bible says in his heart “There is no God.” Do you know why you’re a fool? Because the universe is so vast that you couldn’t know 1% of it but you claim to have searched it enough to know there is no God. Foolish people Atheist are. Better be right.

Soulyn,

Would you have married him? What would you have taught your children? You were clearly unequally yoked. You are right …that relationship was a waste of time.

But do you understand that to give in to your wishes…to comprise just a little….would have changed him as much as he was trying to change you? Your marriage would have been a constant pain for him…if he truly loved you. Why? Because as a Chrisitan he knew that you two would only have a few years together on earth…maybe 50 at best. What is 50 years together after the first 2000 years of eternity….an eternity he knew you would never see.

As a buddhist, maybe you thought you could reach nirvana…but as a Chrisitan he knew “no man come unto the father except by me.”….In his heart he would try to love you on earth knowing that you would never see heaven. There’s no Jesus in Buddism.

It was a sad waste of time.

@javier – Two things. The argument that you have answers and we do not is a fallacious one. After all, before we had answered the question of how the solar system was constructed or how diseases spread, there were certainly answers floating about, albeit wrong ones. Simply inventing an answer based on speculative data does not solve the problem – indeed, the approach of admitting what we cannot definitively explain leaves us more open to truth than parading a certain but untested truth which blocks us off from new thought.

Secondly – You claim that atheists are fools because we have said there is no god. Most atheists, at least most honest ones, will not ever say definitively that there is no god. The logically honest answer is to say that there is PROBABLY not a god. By way of analogy: I live my life under the logical assumption that the world is devoid of unicorns, fairies, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and all that sort of stuff. Why, then, would I live my life assuming there is a god? Your argument is that if we cannot DISPROVE a god, we should default to believing in one. Under that logic, we will never disprove it since the universe is infinite. It’s a silly line of logic to take, therefore one I will not follow.

Theophage,
(1) You still odn’t give any answers….all that man’s medicine and intelligence can claim is that they were fools yesterday. And today’s Doctors will be tomorrows fools as we find that new drug is killing people. Let’s break it down to a simple equation…God created everything. Prove I’m wrong.

(2) The logical answer is not there is probably no god…when you look around you and see that everything works hand in hand even down to the smalles atom…If you landed on Mars and saw a house you wouldn’t look for the maker?……no…the logical answer is “Something did this. What or Who is it?” I say God. Prove I’m wrong.

@M A R C R OO S E L E R

“My top 5 its approximately 100% Atheist (the closest to any deification is Neo-pagan, I’m fine with that as I am Haitian and honor my heritage).”

Right. But I wonder if other atheists/agnostics/etc. know that there are labels for their beliefs? I was shocked to find that out when I first took the quiz 5 years ago. I scored 100% Neo-Pagan this time but, after reading the description, realized it doesn’t fit my faith as well as descriptions of Secular Humanism, Uniterian Universalism, or New Age.

@ Jazzy. “I would date an atheist…but he’s gotta have some sense that there is something that exists other than the material world.”

“Like what?
I don’t think not having a higher power is egocentric (unless I’m reading this wrong).”

You’re not reading wrong. The older I get and the more I study humans, the more I believe in Universal Law, Karma, reincarnation, etc. So I do consider myself spiritual, just not religious as I don’t practice any formal rituals, traditions, etc. I consider myself a searching agnostic. In the past, I have dated religious men, as long as they aren’t fanatical about trying to convert me to their belief systems. I’ve also dated men who are religiously (and spiritually?) nonchalant. At this point in my life, I wouldn’t want to date a man who has no respect for/belief in something higher than himself. I don’t care what he wants to call it, but I’d prefer him to at least have a sense of connectedness to the spiritual world. Otherwise, we are not on the same wavelength spiritually, and the relationship can only go so deep. And I’m done with the superficial dating.

@javier

First I do believe in a high power. I just have enough sense to know that God has not given a small group of people the right answer and choose to neglect everybody else*thats where the logic comes in*

“We won that war a long time ago when Christ rose from the dead. If you’re not a Chrisitan, you’re living on borrowed time.” This comment is just laughable! LOL. Jesus was a good dude so was Martin Luther King and Confucius and Ghandi but neither were a direct offspring of God. If you believe that you might as well believe Greek Mythology. Last time I checked we’re all going die!

“You’re lucky that our God loves you so much that He’s trying to save you despite yourselves. You think it’s chance that brought you here?” Honestly I dont know why I am here ,but unlike you and other religious people I dont pretend to know!

“The bible says” Who gives a fuck what the Bible says? The Bible has been compromised. It has been tampered with by man even if it was hypothetically writing by God. Which just goes to show you what you know. At the Council of Nicaea Constantine and others got together and hand picked what would be allowed in the 1st Bible and what didnt make the cut forever contaminating ya’ll “Good Book”. Once again do your homework before you give your soul away!

I like the numerical format.

1: There is a saying: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Your claim that the world has supernatural origins is backed by no evidence whatsoever, it is merely an assertion. The burden of proof is on YOU, not on we poor folk. Otherwise, I challenge you to prove that I do NOT have an invisible leprechaun floating around my head chucking marshmallows at the wall. Any ludicrous assertion may be made without proof, and dismissed without the same.

2: Arguments made in the last entry apply here as well. However, there is an additional line of reasoning which you are missing with this “everything works together” bit – of course everything works together. And if it didn’t work the way it does, it would certainly find another way to work. Simply pointing out that nature has order is not evidence that someone ordered it, it is evidence that nature may manifest order – nothing more. We are wired, as humans, to attribute actions to agents – that is to say, the rustle in the underbrush is more likely to be a tiger than the wind. This is because there is an evolutionary advantage to assuming it’s a tiger, given that erring on the side of “it’s just the wind” will eventually have you being wrong – and eaten. In much the same way, you see patterns and order and you assume – instinctively – that someone set those patterns the way they are. The logical answer, however, is to assume that some precondition caused those patterns to occur. We are slowly explaining those preconditions, bit by bit, and every single one we’ve explained has yielded an answer that is NOT supernatural. Instead, the answers turn out to be eminently natural, explicable, grounded in the world around us. At no point have we reached a conclusion which has indicated anything remotely resembling a divine being.

Theophage, you’re wong, Christianity does have all the answers. The earth is flat, and the sun does revolve around the earth. Galileo didn’t know anything. Also, there’s no such thing as other planets or dinosaurs since the bible did not mention them.

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

“Western Christian biblical references Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, and 1 Chronicles 16:30 include (depending on translation) text stating that “the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved.” In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, “the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.” Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that “And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place” etc.”

“On 31 October 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary, as the result of a study conducted by the Pontifical Council for Culture.”

Just want to add that in general, I resent when religious people assume that non-religious people are: amoral or immoral, unable to commit deeply, etc. just because we do not subscribe to the same code of ethics that they do. Most times, if you dig below the surface of labels, value systems of two people aren’t that much different…Religion shows you the lifestyle to follow to stay on a certain path. If someone is walking alongside you on the same path but isn’t wearing the same uniform (read: religion) as you, would you not still feel a sense of kinship? Or would you just concentrate on the different color T-shirt he/she is wearing?

@Astra – My apologies. I seem to have been “schooled,” right there. I yield to your crushing wisdom.

Christians have been some of the most cruel people in history. So how can a Christian make a case about other people lack of MORALS?

For those out there who are “honest” Atheist….I suggest you start with a book by a former Atheist turned Chrisitian. C.S. Lewis wrote “Mere Christianity” with you in mind. He was a brilliant Athiest who used simple logiic to “think” his way to Christ. He was a little surprised at where he arrived…but he did.

I’ve also had the pleasure of listening to a Russian scientist who used science to find something he wasn’t looking for…God. I don’t think he has a book…and the thing I loved about his speech is that it was not very polished….just his story.

Listen, we are not trying to shove this down your throat. We’re just trying to get off this sinking ship with our lives. The lifeboat is free but we can’t make you get on it. The bible actually commands us to tell you the truth…but if you don’t listen to us…it says for us to “shake our sandals off” and move on to the next person.

The sad truth is that Jesus didn’t die for everyone…just those who will accepet the gift.

Has anyone ever read “Mere Christianity”?

@Astra

You just converted me! LMAO

Can somebody baptise me please?!!!!!!

How convenient is the arrangement where one can state that every fortuitious event was “willed by God”, every tradgedy was “the devil’s work”, every setback, was “part of God’s larger plan”?

Even more incredible is that some religious folks throw the burden of proving God’s existence on athiests. Gosh folks, that’s something that you really have to do for yourselves.

@javier

Lucky you with there being tens of thousands of religions since the beginning of man lucky Javier and all the Christians who just happen to luck up and find the one true religion God wanted us to follow.

@Theophage

Have you studied law? Because you would ace the LSAT’s with your knowledge of the differences between valid, invalid, fallacious, illogical etc. arguments. Most people are not aware of this…

In all that I have read thus far between DaThrone, Paulette, Astra, Theophage, etc., I have come to the conclusion that the one commonality between atheists and agnostics are that we put more weight on using deductive reasoning rather than inductive reasoning (as most religious people do).

Deductive reasoning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

Inductive reasoning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

@Javier:

“Listen, we are not trying to shove this down your throat. We’re just trying to get off this sinking ship with our lives. The lifeboat is free but we can’t make you get on it. The bible actually commands us to tell you the truth…but if you don’t listen to us…it says for us to “shake our sandals off” and move on to the next person.

The sad truth is that Jesus didn’t die for everyone…just those who will accepet the gift.”

If you want to convert someone to your way of thinking, what you might want to “shake off” is your holier than thou attitude. This is what turns people off the most about religious people, especially Christians. Just b/c you think you’ve found the golden key to life does not mean that you must spread this “knowledge” to everyone. Try living your life as an example of your “superior” beliefs. Ever wonder why Christianity requires people to convert others as part of its test of loyalty? Hmm…Religion is big business. And it needs more market share in order to survive. That’s where people like you come in. Notice how Buddhists and Hindus keep to themselves and mind their own business…

And another thing! Jesus never was a christian or never told people to be christians. He lied and dead as a Jew. The religion is based around his death.

Da Throne, Once again, like Lois pointed out. You’re confusing Chrisitan history with Catholic history. But you’re right about those Codexes…but that’s Chrisitan history. You want more fire power? Go look at what Origin did to the Word of God…but once again, you’d be on the wrong road. There are two bibles, God’s bible from Antioch and Satan’s version from Egypt. I’ll let you find the right one on your own. The research might help you realize that you’re logic is off by deception. I’ll give you a hint. Go find a NIV bible and read “Mathew 18:11″

I think I know why you’re history is mixed with Catholic history. I’m from New Orleans also.

Why do you hate God so much? You can’t prove anything you’re saying but you have chosen to make God your enemy. Sometimes this is what people do, just before they accept God. It’s called, “putting the church on trial”.

Stay honest…you can’t deny truth.

Astra…you’re actually doing the same. The idea that the world is flat was a Catholic interpretation…not a Chrisitian interpretation. Galileo was imprisoned by the Catholic church….I think Galileo was a Christian who got his answers from God. I wish he had chosen to die instead of recanting….I believe he and the current pope were actually friends.

It’s also a bad interpretation to say Chrisitians don’t believe in dinos…a correct answer would be christians do not believe in the “time” of the dinos. At the rate inwhich the moon is moving away from the earth you can count it backwards to where it would be close enough to the earth to cause the air density to be able to support the size of these beast…but it wouldn’t be millions of years ago. I “think” it would put them only a few million years ago.

The bible speaks of large beast….what was the leviathan?

Catholic history is christian history, up until the advent of the Protestant Reformation.

Without Catholicism there would not have been a christianity for you to follow.

Also, without Judiasm there not have been a chriatianity for you to follow.

@javier

The Christian history and the Catholic history use to be one. The Bible that you vaule(and quote from) is from Catholic history “The King James version” only farther proving my point!

Who hates God? I have a healthy respect for the things that I dont understand. But I will never believe in any religion. If God wants me to carry some label he/she/it has to come tell me personally not through some lame ass line of people who would teach you to “Believe or else”!

Please tell me if the Bible that you own, the one in your home, include the passages which state that the Earth is flat.

Bah, there was a flurry of activity and I seem to have dropped off for a few posts. Javier, the sad truth is that any logical proof I’ve ever seen for the existence of god – and trust me, I’ve seen lots – they’ve all committed some error, some minor assumption that renders them untenable. There is no logical way to prove a supernatural, because the supernatural inherently defies logic, it is what breaks the laws of nature. That’s why it’s called faith. I have no issue with faith, I only dislike faith masquerading as something provable or empirically justifiable. It cannot be, ever.

@Jazzy – I really don’t think that’s anything more than basic critical thinking skills. The fact that it’s not expected in our society is sad, in my opinion. That said, I’m a debate kid.

Wow, Da Throne…I’m starting to wonder if you’re really serious about what you’re saying or just working for the other side. LOL

Jesus not a Chrisitan? The word means, “Chris Like” LOL I think he was as Christ like as you can get!! LOL

Everyone who believed that the Christ would come and be our sacrifice was a Chrisitian…..that means that Adam was the first Chrisitan…as he was the first to give a sacrifice of “Blood”….the innocent animal represents Christ…everyone who died before Christ died with the “hope” that Christ would come…and those who died after Christ died with the assurance that he did what he said he would do.

That makes them all believers in Christ and it makes Chrisitanity the oldest religion on the planet. Christianity did not begin at Antioch.

I have also found that a lot of what you guys are argueing about is “poor examples of Christianity”. I’m sorry for those examples…but you have to understand the war we’re in. The enemy is the father of deception and some people are actually out there to run you away from the truth. You should read this book called “He came to set the captives free”. It’s written by an ex-satanist. She describes a lot of their tactics. Another good read is “The screw tape letters”…..If you have the guts to put your brain where your mouth is!

And about being holier than anyone else….you’re right and wrong. We do have the truth on our side…but any real christian knows that like our prayers we are filthy rags…it’s Christ’s holiness that makes us holy….and because you don’t have Christ…well….that makes us holier than you. Sorry, you turned down the free gift. Now you’re just angry all the time. I understand…you have good reason to be. You’re going to die. It’s the simple truth. Man’s knowledge is foolishness to God and it can’t save you.

Don’t die…choose to live before it’s too late.

@javier

You are talking in circles. I thought God told everybody to be Jewish. And then changed his mind in the middle of man and killed his son so we can be Christians? Why was Moses and everybody else you dealt with God directly a Jew? Even Jesus if God wanted us to be Christians the whole time. The shit just dont make any sense. I cant follow a religion with no proof(but like Theophage pointed out there will never be proof or its not faith its fact) or aleast some fucking logic! With Christianty has no logic.

Astra, expalin that to the Waldenses. The catholic church nearly wiped them out for not changing their Chrisitan beliefs. There are plenty of others. I suggest you search for God on your own. The truth will be liberating…just to find out that you’re right about Him not existing.

Are any of you afraid to find out that you’re wrong? Just do your research and follow the truth. It will always lead to God. You claim to know the truth now…what could it hurt? It will just lead to more truth.

Well guys…this was fun but I have to check on my three kids. You know what’s cool? I will have eternity to spend with them. I’m training them up in the way they should go. Hey, want to know something else? I talked to my mom before she died…I think I will see her again too! Isn’t God awesome!! Just think of the Atheist. Is this why your funerals are so sad? Is it because you know that you will never ever see that person again? Well, you’re right. Unless you both find the truth in the time God has given you, you will never ever see them again.

I’m sorry to bring you this bad news….but look at the other side…I’m also bringing you good news….that’s what the Gospel of Jesus is. Good news. Take it…or leave it. But know the consequences of your choice. Think about that when you kiss your kids good night. In a few years…it’s just over. Anyone that says that’s o.k. with them does not understand true love. I love my kids…and I will…forever…even “after” this world.

Now tell me atheist…what hope do your world offer?

Unlock your hearts and live. Why choose death when life is free? What does it cost to just do the research? Could be life changing!!!! or Life saving!!!!

Good night all. Tonight I will say a special prayer for you guys!! May “we” all find th truth…Want it be wonderful to speak to you guys in heaven under my apple tree in the cool of the day on our 3000th day of eternity? Sure sounds better than fire doesn’t it?

I know you’re leaving for the night, but let me offer this up – my atheism does not rob my life of hope and splendor. On the contrary, the lack of any promised afterlife throws the brief time I am here into sharp clarity as an irreplaceable and wonderful thing, something unique and precious simply BECAUSE of the lack of a hereafter. I don’t know about you, but I find the concept of eternity to be somewhat stifling. The fact that we only have these brief years on this planet makes every moment that much more precious, and every conversation that much more interesting.

I understand that from your paradigm an existence defined solely between life and death is scary. In my paradigm, it is reality, inescapable. I do not let it depress me, because life is wonderful. Why would I look for anything more than what I have here? Casting my gaze to eternal paradise devalues the world I live in, which is something none of us can afford to do.

Ok, just found out one of my followers on Twitter is a pastor of a very interesting church (even more open than the Unitarian Universalist Church!):

“Welcome to the Church of Creation! ‘Welcome’ is one of those everyday words mostly spoken and heard automatically. ‘Welcome’ comes to us from the Old English, wilcuma, which means, “your arrival is in alignment with our choice.” This coming together and welcoming is an act of choosing. By welcoming you, we are communicating that you are always already chosen. You don’t have to do anything to be chosen; you already are. Thank you for Being.

There is also nothing to believe or disbelieve. This is a church without a creed or a code. Recognizing that believing or disbelieving may get in the way of living authentically, one of our practices is to suspend belief in favor of inquiries into the unknowable infinity of Being. Notice that I said suspend: you do not have to give up your beliefs. Your beliefs will still be available to you, if you want to take them up again. It is always your choice.

Inquiring into the unknowable produces distinctions that make a difference in one’s experience of life. We promise that an open inquiry will give you power over the matter in question.”

It’s so open to the point of having “no creed or code”. Wow. Trying to find out what it is they discuss when they congregate…

@javier

The version of Christianity that the masses follow is directly based on the Catholic one. And judging on the way you keep quoting the Bible that includes you!

What research leads to Christianity? The kind that christians make up?

What religion do you know who its follower think that its wrong? And again there have been so many religions since the beginning of man your chance of being wrong is equal to every person that ever lived! And what happen to everybody before “Christ” dying for they’re sins. Do the get a pass or are them condemned to hell on a loophole?

Last thought guys….Better be right.

Da Throne…your ignorance is embarrassing the good Atheist on this page. Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. These people are trying to prove to me that you can have a moral code without God…which I don’t believe…but you’re hurting their efforts with your hate and ignorance.

And no, God did not cause us to be Jews or anything else. He wants us to know the truth and live by that. All people of the bible are Chrisitians…since Christ is the “only” plan of salvation from the start. Even my 8 year old knows that.

You’re embarrassing them and proving my point that without God…you can’t know Love or the truth. God is love…God is truth.

Good night all.

Theophage….life does not have to end with death. That’s only the first death. Jesus is coming again…will you be ready? Will you have your research done to show God why you chose “not” to believe in Him?

Or will you just have your hated of the truth. I’ll pray for you….you pray for me. We are all lost without love….and God is love. I promise you…it is so liberating to know there is a God and He loves us this much!!! We are not alone. We are not forgotten.

There was no Christianity before Christ, just as there was no Obamamania prior to Obama. Therefore, Adam, Abraham, and Moses were not Christians.

Jesus was most definately a Jew. Matthew and Luke describe his maternal and paternal (through Joseph’s adoption of course) ancestry. According to Luke, Jesus is descened from King David through Nathan. King David is most definately a Jew.

When the 3 Kings followed the star to the manger at Jesus’ birth they said “we came by to meet the King of the Jews”.

Jesus was born and raised a Jew. He was ethnically, and culturally a Jew. When others referred to him as a Jew he did not correct them (as I’m sure that you would, if someone were to in your presence, refer to you as a Jew). As he grew from childhood to adosolence he studied Jewish doctrines. He was a Rabbi for christsakes!

How much more of a Jew can one be?

I imagine it would be wonderful to know that there is a loving god. In fact, that would be kinda cool to know there’s this fluffy paternalistic figure out there, concerned with our well-being.

Unfortunately, I know no such thing. Neither do you, even if you believe you know it. What you have is a strong, strong faith in the existence of everything you’ve said to this point. Your faith is so strong that to you, it is knowledge, fact, something you can be absolutely certain in. For you, this is wonderful.

I operate in a different reality. I do not know the ultimate nature of the universe. I attempt to know as much as I can, but I recognize that my knowledge will always be incomplete. Absolute, uncompromising truth is easy to feel good about, it’s powerful and reassuring. It is also almost always an oversimplification of the actual truth of things, if not outright fabrication. The world is not simple, it is a wonderfully complex thing which we cannot hope to comprehend. To squeeze it into a limited religious worldview, in my opinion, does it a great injustice.

Sorry Astra….had to kiss the kids first.

But yes, I will correct you. You’re ignorance is based on your misunderstanding of the bible. Was Moses a Jew? No…Was Jesus a Jew…yes. Was Adam a Jew…No.

You see…When Adam and Eve sinned God told them He would redem and destroy Satan by putting His seed between Himself and Woman. That fortold the coming of Christ. You see? Christ came through woman later down the road just like God said He would. Man had nothing to do with it…like God said.

When Adam sacrificed an animal for his sin…he actually took two animals. One he released into the wilderness to die. That animal represents Satan…the scapegoat. The other innocent animal was sacrificed. That animal represented Christ. The innocent one….Jews were still thousands of years away….That tribe didn’t even exist yet.

People who died before Christ died with the ‘hope” that Christ would come to redeem them….those who died after christ died with the ‘assurance” that Christ did what He said He would do. They all trusted in Christ…so they were all Christians.

The name Chrisitian came from Antioch….it only means “Christ like” that’s all…it wasn’t even created by Chrisitians.

So yes…Chrisitanity is the oldest religion…and yes, Christ was Christ like…and so were all the Jews.

And acutally…the bible says that we are all Abrahams children by adoption….meaning…we are all Jews! LOL True story…

Oh…also, the story above is why Christians don’t do sacrifices today…..Christ has come. No more need for animals.

You know Theophage and Astra…I like the way you think. You seem to really believe what you’re saying…and that’s awesome. In fact, this is the why Jesus appeared to Paul. Paul was killing Christians! But he actually believed they deserved to die. In fact, that’s why he was headed to Damascus!

But he was an honest man…so when he met Jesus he immediatly changed his belief!!!

But….He thought that everyone else felt that way…the people who were helping him kill christians….He went to tell them what he found…and they tried to kill him! They didn’t care about the truth….they were just full of hate.

This is what I caution you on Da Throne…hate will harden your heart and nothing will make sense to you. Your hate is not built on evidence you’ve found. Just your hatred of the truth.

Avis and Theophage….I would like to know what research brought you to the fact that their is no god?

@javier

I am not an Atheist Im a realist! I do believe something of a higher power has set what we now know as our universe in motion. I just dont believe he/she/it gave us a set of rules or guidelines how to live our lives outside of a conscience. I do think that love is all the proof that I need. These are my personal beliefs this is where my “Research” got me.

I dont think life stops here I do think there are some supernatural thing that take place on this planet that reason cant explain. And I believe science backs this. Things ghost and people with ESP ability has been documented. I quote Estein earlier in those blog “Energy is neither created nor destroyed it is simple transformed from one form to any other”. That to me is science saying that though are physical may be temporary are mental may carry on.

And if saying Fuck diminish my logic behind my reasoning guess what I DONT GIVE A FUCK! LOL!

@Javier I’ve been following this thread and just will comment only on this you say,

“Da Throne…your ignorance is embarrassing the good Atheist on this page. Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. These people are trying to prove to me that you can have a moral code without God…which I don’t believe…but you’re hurting their efforts with your hate and ignorance…..”

No, your wrong he’s not hurting anyone ones efforts. His actions, my actions, your actions only reflect and represent ourselves only and do not represent any community as a whole. Just as when you hear someone state another erroneous fact like, you make black people look bad. No, they don’t they only make themselves look bad. I, we, you, only speak and represent ours self and no one else no matter how much we’d like to think. It is illogical to even attempt to say that what someone else says represents anyone else but them to attempt to make your point stronger. Each individual has their own brain and mouth so judge each person accordingly instead of making false, erroneous blanket statements. It wouldn’t hurt to exercise a bit of critical thinking.

Javier, I was never brought to any fact or realization concerning my lack of belief. I have never held a belief in a deity, and my belief in the supernatural perished after I grew old enough to use my reasoning abilities. I live my life with open eyes, drawing my conclusions from the world around me. I simply have never seen anything that made me say, “huh, this suggests to me that there is something beyond what I see and touch.” I, like everyone, have problems and questions to which I find no resolution – however, I do try to accept that there are some questions which I may not answer, and the state of not having an answer is a valid one in which to exist. I am not hostile to the concept of deities, I just find them an utterly unconvincing and unwarranted explanation for the answers we lack.

@javier

Nobody knows the truth. Truth is a abstract concept. What is true to you clearly isnt the truth to me. There are only facts and opinions. We’re giving facts and you are giving your opinions.

I dont recall hating on anybody. If anything I feel pity for brainwashed people.

Its interesting that you can claim, that (1) certain folks that existed PRIOR to the birth of Jesus were still christians, (2) that anyone who believed in the eventual advent of a messiah (albeit they lived in some remote part of the world where they never came into contact with the bible/christians) is also a true christian, and (3) that Catholics are not christians. Therefore, your neighborhood Catholic who obviously happens to have faith in the bible’s truths, and also obviously believes that Jesus is the son of God is NOT a christian, but yet Adam is a christian???

The fact that the Catholic Church persecuted the Waldenses does not mean that the Catholics are not christians, or even that Catholicism is not a representation of christianity.

If people were to decide that they would not follow christianity, or any particular religion for that matter, due to the persecution of a group with which they identify, then there probably would be no more than 16 christians in the world, since christianity largely was spread through force and domination.

Again, without Catholicism there would be no crhistianity for modern christains to follow. The Baptists, Methodists, 7th Day Adventists, Lutherians, Calvisnists, etc. are just breakaway sects from the original- Catholicism.

You still haven’t responded about your Bible’s possible inclusion of the passages regarding the Earth being in the center of the universe, and that the sun revolves around the earth. Does you version include this, or doesn’t it?

Astra, you have to follow me here….Catholics “are” Chrisitians…..because their religion is a Christian “sect”…..but I’m speaking about those who actually believed that Christ was coming to reconnect them to God….that conncetion was broken when man first sinned. If you put your trust in Christ to fix that connection you are a Christian. Adam demonstrated this by giving a ‘blood” sacrifice that represents Christ. That’s why he and all the others were Chrisitians. By this definition…Jews were also Chrisitians…just waiting of Christ to come.

Protestants broke away from the mother church because the could not “reform” the church…The Reformation. The Catholic church did not create them nor did they “want” them. They broke away because they realized that the mother church was not telling all the truth.

About those verses….none of them say the earth is flat or the center of the universe. This was an “interpretation” of the “corrupted” mother church. Read them again to someone who does not know what you know about what the mother church was teaching they meant….that person will be very confused without you guiding them into the “flat earth” theory.

Gallileo was right…but the church made him say he was wrong then locked him up. He shouldn’t have done this. He should have died to tell the people the truth. This might have lead to the people overthrowing the church and brining about the needed change!

But….ofcourse this couldn’t happen because God has already told us how the earth will end.

Man, with all the activity in the universe and near misses of astroids, you atheist must live in constant fear. Not me. I know exactly how it’s all going to end! Want to know? Read the bible. It’s all in there between Revelations and Daniel. No astroid…no war….it’s already there!

hey guys! I have one for you! You want to prove there is no God?? Go put Europe back together! God said it wouldn’t be done…ever again.

All you have to do is out smart Naepolean and Hitler….they all tried! It will not be done!

When Hitler learned of the prophesy he said he wanted nothing from God but to be left alone. When Naepolean learned he tried to kill the man who told him with a sword…..

It can’t be done! Europe was the last to control the world….then Jesus comes! We are waiting on Jesus now.

Come quick Lord Jesus!

How amazing was that prophesy?!? Who but God could do that?!?

Not going to approach the biblical stuff, since that’s not really interesting to debate. Philosophically, though, it’s fairly silly to live in fear of asteroids and gamma ray bursts and the like. I mean, what could you or I do about it if something like that happened? Nothing. And how much would I care afterwards if it did happen? Not much, seeing as I’d be dead. So aside from some mild concern over the prospect, I tend not to dwell on the things I can’t do anything about. It’s unproductive.

@Javier, second post: Also, what? That is fairly nonsensical. Because a highly complex geopolitical situation didn’t stabilize (which is, admit it, probably the LEAST probable outcome you could wish for) you say that it’s the proof we need for god existing? That’s like referencing the covenant made after the flood and pointing to the lack of any further global floods (evidence of the first or lack thereof notwithstanding) as proof that god exists. It’s easy to use that situation because it’s VASTLY IMPROBABLE that it would reach the outcome you’ve stated.

also, how could you guys let say that and get away with it?? You all know that’s not true. If you guys stand up for truth like you say…I’ll just sit back and let you correct him.

I say, we all represent our sex, race, age group, and religion. I’m not saying it’s fair…but we all know it’s true.

Da Throne…I know you feel this way…didn’t you say Chrisitians are some of the crueliest people you know? Wow, either you agree with me…or you know all Christians on the planet.

o.K. guys…show me this moral code and let emotinalfunk have it!!

but don’t just pile on him…show him some of that ungodly love you speak of. lol

ungodly love? i slay me! LOL I bet you’re all cowarts and liars with no moral code…and I’ll prove it by watching none of you correct him.

Javier, labeling people by phenotypic or ideological groups is a cognitive mechanism designed to allow us to predict behavioral traits based on minimum prior input. It is highly useful in some situations, and bad in others. When you use it to make assertions like “all christians are cruel” or “black people are bad” then it becomes a negative trait.

What I find ironic is that you are doing the exact same thing by predicting our behavior as members of the group “atheists” by labeling us cowards and liars with no moral code simply based on our ideological leanings. This is as unjust and negative as Da Throne labeling all christians cruel. Please think about this.

So now Jesus was a Jew? But you previously said that he wasn’t. However, Moses and Adam were not Jews!?!

Moses brought the ten commandments, the foundation of Hebrew law, to the Jews from the top of Mount Sinai. He was the leader of the Jews, and he liberated the Jews from “bondage”. He considered himself a Jew, and they (the Jews plus the Egyptians) considered him a Jew; this is according to the Talmud, Torah, and the Bible. If you are insuating that he was not trully a Jew but was actually a practioner of the Ancient Egyptian religious order, then I can understand what you are saying. But if that is not what you are saying, what can you possibly mean when you say that Moses was not a Jew? Especially since Moses was ethnically a Jew since he descended from Abraham.

Also, if you mean that Adam was not a Jew because the 1st Jew was Abraham, then I understand what you are saying. But if it is for any other reason I don’t know what you are talking about. It is obvious that God wanted to have Judiasm created immediately (i.e. with Adam) but because Adam messed up, he lost out, and it was not until Abraham’s advent that a covenant with God was finally made.

There would have been no need for Jesus to come into existance if Adam had followed instructions. Adam was the intended 1st Jew, but he lost out by disqualification.

theophage….what about, Babylon, Medio Persa, Greece, and Rome??? They all did it! Why can’t it be done again? But that’s just a scatch at the surface!

And how can we have this debate without the bible you’re trying to discredit? Is it possible that you’re trying to argue a point based on ‘just” your reasoning and no research?? I think you have exposed yourself. You have no reason to discredit God because you haven’t searched for him.

For this reason…you don’t even know if unicorn actually exist? One could actually walk out of the jungle. i personally can’t tell you if they exist….but guess what? The bible mentions them. Might be a different animal…but the word unicorn is used.

I’m sorry….but the second thing you wrote doesn’t make sense to me….could you explain again?

Da Throne….you’re probably working for the enemy…you stopped making sense a long time ago. Don’t let Satan use you…some of these people are serious. you may throw your life away…but don’t take others with you.

Now you’re talking about believing in God. Wow, couldn’t guess that just an hour ago. Like I said…you’re either full of hate and working for Satan…or you’re putting the church on trial.

So Theophage,
Was that a small tap on the wrist of Da Throne? Do you think he go the point?

As for me? I’m speaking in truth. I beleive that you can’t be a moral person without God. I think that you can’t love without God. I said that you guys are victims of some bad Christianity you’ve witnessed….I beleive all these things. Therefore, for me to say that I don’t beleive all atheist are liars and cowarts would make “me” the liar and cowart. right? Isn’t that logical?

I think you misunderstand my foundation for reasoning. As an empiricist, I function off of assumptions. I will admit, I do not KNOW that there is no god. I likewise do not know that there are no unicorns. But the experiences I have had, the knowledge I have obtained and the observations I have made in my life have formed a view of the world which would not easily incorporate gods or unicorns. It would contravene several established rules, starting with conservation of energy and working all the way up to more abstract and fuzzy principles like the universe’s nonrecognition of moral precepts. Because of this inherent contradiction without which gods and unicorns cannot exist, I therefore deem it highly probable that they do not exist. If new evidence comes up, I would of course reconsider my stance.

Also, I question the validity of your assertion that my views are invalid because I have not searched for a god. I have indeed pondered the question of metaphysical things like gods or an afterlife. It’s only natural to explore those avenues of thought, tempting as they are to the mind. After consideration and multiple returns to those lines of thought, I end up consistently rejecting them as implausible. My views are valid insofar as I have experienced the world and formed a view of it.

I’m not sure which second point you mean, we’ve covered quite a few specific points.

Edit: To address your latest post – I believe that you would be a liar (given your premises) if you said that IN YOUR OPINION we are not immoral and liars and whatnot. However, given that I (an atheist) have loved, shaped my actions because of morality, refrained from lying when doing so would benefit me, etc; this would seem to challenge your premise that one cannot be good without god. I consider myself quite a good person, and my belief or lack thereof is rather irrelevant to that.

Wow, Astra,

You’re way out in left field here. Moses didn’t save the Jews. LOL…He lead the “Isralites” out of Egypt. A Jew wasn’t even thought of yet. They come later down the road.

Also, God didn’t intend to bring in a Jew or anything else other than just “man” into existance…These things had to be done because man sinned…without sin you wouldn’t have a jew, isralite, or chrisitan. We would just be man serving God. That’s all.

And God didn’t give the ten commandments to the Jews…He gave it to “man”. A Jew wasn’t even thougt about when Moses came down with the law. if you asked him if he was a Jew he would say, “What’s a Jew?”

Before the cross, even when they were following and learning from Jesus, if you asked a deciple if he was a Chrisitian he would say, “What’s a Chrisitan?” that name came later from Antioch.

But we are all Chrisitians because we put our hope in Christ. Adam did it, the israelites did it, Catholics do it, Baptist do it, Moses did it, Even the Priest that killed Jesus did it. They just didn’t recognize that He was the Christ.

You know, it’s pretty clear now that “NONE” of you have a working understanding of the bible…yet you speak like you could stand before God with your beliefs. How arrogant!! You know, all will bow before him….you can do it now…or just before the fire blows. It’s your choice. Choose wisely

Since the passages don’t say that the Earth is the center of the universe and that the sun revolves around the Earth, what do they say? Why is that this particular passage open to interpretation when other passages are taken literally? How do you determine which is a parable, and which is literal?

“Adam demonstrated this by giving a ‘blood” sacrifice that represents Christ. That’s why he and all the others were Chrisitians. By this definition…Jews were also Chrisitians…just waiting of Christ to come.”

This idea of Jews actually being Christians is as absurd as the Muslim promotion that all Jews and Christians are actually Muslims since they believe in the unity (monotheistic nature) of God and also believe that one should follow God’s teachings. Please ask any Jew if they are actually Christian. It would be better though if you could ask 10 though, to see if you could get a unanimous negative consensus. One can’t be a Christian if they deny being Christian. Jew are not Christians.

“Protestants broke away from the mother church because the could not “reform” the church…The Reformation. The Catholic church did not create them nor did they “want” them. They broke away because they realized that the mother church was not telling all the truth.”

The Catholic church did create the Protestants. If there were no Catholic church to begin with, there would be noting to “protest” (hence the word “Protestant”) against. You even referred to the Catholic church as the mother, twice actually. There can be no child without there first being a mother. Also, in terms of breaking away, they did not break far off from the Catholic since they are all, to varying degrees, still very similar to the Catholic church.

@ Javiar

Lol @ you and I am a woman by the way. Totally the best online rant I’ve seen in a while.

“I say, we all represent our sex, race, age group, and religion. I’m not saying it’s fair…but we all know it’s true.”

You don’t represent me or anyone else or any other here. You don’t represent other Christians either. We all represent our own self but if you can prove it factually without assumptions and generalizations I’ll believe you.

Good night and argue on lol.

Theophage…I can’t you would leave this important topic to just an “assumption”. This is much more important. What if I told you that I had a magic potion that could make your kids live happily ever after….but if you don’t take it….he will die in 40 years. Would you say? Well 40 years is long to me and that’s really enough of a life for him….or would you at least investigate my potion to see if it had merit?

You sounded so intelligent until you said that. Just assume there is no God and keep going. Under what scientific approach would you validate an opinion blamed on such??? Don’t do any real research, just walk into the lab of life and write an assumption on the bottle.

And you wonder why I question the thinking of an Atheist??

Everyday you take a bath in a substance that you can’t explain…and you don’t care.

I was just checking to see if anyone corrected EmotionalFunk yet? Not yet?

Anyone wants to prove to me that you all aren’t tight lip cowarts?

o.k. I’ll give her proof.

No one has ever met everyone in the world…yet racisim exist.

Will that do it? How can racisim exist unless someone is judgeing everyone based on sharing the same skin tone.

How can you know truth? Cowarts and Liars.

As to your magic potion scenario, Javier, I would regard your claim as fantastical and your potion as snake oil – after all, given that I am the one taking the potion, it’s fairly odd to assume that it would make my kids’ life awesome, affect reality to make them live longer, or do anything at all besides possibly make me sick.

I think you misunderstand what I mean when I say assumption. In the sense I use it, assumption is not some idle baseless stance. When I toss a ball up in the air, I “assume” it will fall to the ground. That is to say, I am 99.9999 percent certain that when it is done ascending, it will descend. However, my assumption is based on past events, this time it could be different. A gust of wind could catch it, a bird could catch it midflight, a billion things could happen to render my assumption invalid. An assumption is a useful prediction.

So, when you say an assumption is based on whimsy, you do my opinion a great injustice. I am not walking into the lab of life and writing an opinion on the bottle. I am uncorking it, testing its properties, boiling it, freezing it, mixing it and stirring it until I have ascertained beyond a reasonable doubt what is in the bottle – then I write what I assume to be the contents on the label. It could very well be some liquid with EXACTLY the same properties as the one I’ve divined it to be, but the likelihood of that is so very improbable as to be not worth considering – exactly the same probability I assign to the existence of a god.

Your assessment of me is flawed, Javier. You misunderstand how I approach the world, and I believe you share similar misunderstandings concerning the paradigms of my fellow atheists, agnostics and humanists. This damages your ability to discuss things with us.

Astra, you ignorance of the Word of God is now glowing. How can you claim to have done your research when you know nothing about God or His people?

It’s also clear that you’re not reading all my post. I hope that other Atheist are reading your words and now for the first time realizing that some people argue for the sake of arguing but really don’t have a clue as to what they are talking about.

You should go back and read my post. But let me ask you a question….Do today’s Jews believe in a coming Christ that will reconnect them with God?

Theophage….show me how your assumption of no God works. Break it down for me.

oh…the portion part? So you’re saying that when your childi is sick and the Doctor gives you medicine you don’t give it to him to make his life better. You just “assume” it’s snake oil…no testing…no reading…just say to yourself, “How can something derived from plants kill a virus in my son?!” Then toss it in the trash.

You totally avoided the question using this snake oil nonsense. just answer the question….

So the “Isrealites” were not Jews?!? Where is your evidence to support this?

You also state that there were no Jews at the point of Moses’ time, but Abraham (Moses’ great-great-great-great grandfather) was the 1st Jew. But this is only according to the Talmud, Torah, Bible, and Quran. What sources are you using?

If someone lead you out of a place where you were reportedly held in cruel bondage by insisting that the “slavemaster” release you; and then commands various disasters to occur because of the “slavemaster’s” reluctance to release you; then was able to part the waters for you to cross them, but subsequently released the waters to trap and drown the “slavemaster” – this would not constitute “saving” you? This would only be “leading” you, as in when a tour guide in the Natural History Museum “leads” the group around the museum so that they don’t get lost? Did Harriet Tubman “save” or just simply “lead” those ensalved Africans from enslavement?

It’s a doctor now? I was operating under the assumption that YOU were giving it to me. If it’s a doctor, giving me medicine which has been proven via empirical testing to be functional – that’s something else entirely.

Insofar as assuming there is no god, it’s fairly simple. I’ll do it semiformally:

Premise: Occam’s Razor (i.e., given multiple explanations the one with the least variables is the more plausible)

Premise: Empiricism (Assumptions about the way the world works shall be derived from experiential data and observations)

Contention: I have observed nothing in this world which necessitates a divine power or other supernatural force as a cause.

Contention: I have seen no spiritually founded explanation for which there was not a valid secular explanation, accepting that “we do not know the answer yet” is a valid secular explanation.

Conclusion: It is not necessary to assume the existence of a supernatural element to life to form a cohesive worldview.

I could add a further corollary that adding that supernatural element actually complicates the logic of adopting a worldview to the point that you have to throw out tested scientific conclusions, leading to obvious contradictions which actually form the basis of a different sort of argument against spirituality.

Astra, this is getting embarrasing… You have almost “no” research to back up your beliefs.
Jews are from the tribe of Judah which was only “one” of the 12 tribes of Isralites. The tribe of Judah is where the Jews eventually came from. They took on the name Jews from the title Judah after they were freed from Babylonian captivity.

Moses lead them….God freed them. Moses only obeyed God. Did what God told him to do.

He only lead. He ws a tool of God. In fact, God told him to smack the rock once to get water from it. Moses out of anger and being fed up with the whinning Isralites smacked it “twice” and for that God punished him.

No, its actually your ignorance of the Bible that is glowing. Its glowing brighter the sun that revolves around the Earth.

You constantly contradict youself. You refuse to post what your version of the bible states about the Earth and the sun, even though I’ve asked you twice.

You are no teacher.

And to answer your question- Yes, today’s Jews do believe that there will be a messiah, however, this does make them Christians since they deny that Jesus was that person. They do not believe in Jesus. If you don’t believe me, since I am a liar- according to you, please approach a few Jews and ask them if they are Christian- then listen to them when they respond in the negative.

So today’s Jews are only one out of 12 of the tribes, huh. In every political, social, and historic sense the Israelites and Jews are the same. Who celebrates the Passover, just the one tribe? Or a group of Jews that is larger than the one tribe? Who claims (through the polcitical belief of Zionism) that Isreal is the Jewish homeland? Just the one Judean tribe? Or a group of Jews that is larger than just the one tribe?

1. How do you know I’m not a Doctor? More assumption?

2. You wrote..

Contention: I have observed nothing in this world which necessitates a divine power or other supernatural force as a cause.

So you have never witnessed life in any form? This is a lie. If you’ve walked this earth longer than 10 years you’ve seen wonderous things that you can’t explain.

Contention: I have seen no spiritually founded explanation for which there was not a valid secular explanation, accepting that “we do not know the answer yet” is a valid secular explanation.

Ever seen a crack head find God….no hospital…just God and change? Ever seen a dying man healed after prayer? Doctors can’t explain it?
(There’s a study on how prayer seems to actually heal people. Find it…read it. It’s based on research.)

Conclusion: It is not necessary to assume the existence of a supernatural element to life to form
a cohesive worldview.

“Not necessary” is the closest you can get for such a powerful assumnption??? You would risk your possibility of eternal life on “Not necessarry?”

I’ll tell you what…..What you believe seems to take more “Faith” than what I believe.

Please disprove that the religious authorities of the Talmud, Torah, Bible, and Quran all consider Abraham to be the 1st Jew.

1. A guess. Assumption, if you will.

2. Point by point:
-Your assertion that life necessitates a divine cause is without basis.
-Actually, the study I read says that prayer is not helpful at all in medical recovery:
http://www.physorg.com/news63551345.html

Can you link yours? Dollars to dimes it isn’t in a peer-reviewed journal.

What I believe takes no faith. I believe what I believe because I have seen evidence, facts. I take nothing on faith, except things like friendship and camaraderie.

Edit: @Astra – actually, you only need simple logic. If the three Abrahamic faiths diverged from Abraham (natch) then prior to him there was no need to emphasize anyone as Jewish because there were no divisions and the distinction wasn’t necessary.

When Christianity came to be popular (not when it was formulated) there were thousands of religions about. In these times many ppl were peasants and lived short harsh lives without hope or much to look forward to. They died in their 20s and 30’s of what are today treatable diseases. This particular religion took hold because a promise of salvation and everlasting life appealed to the people living in a hopeless condition. Phenomena were “explained” and laws were set into place based on irrational explanations based on the factless whims of ppl with no regard for testing what they were saying. When I was small, I convinced kids in my neighborhood that there was a werewolf named Samuel that lived in the woods beside my aunts house. I had no facts to prove this, only my storytelling ability and my imagination. This is what I believe the writers of the Bible were doing, only at a much later age.

Athiest have no moral code: It is because of ppl like Javier that I always tell the truth even when doing so hurts me, I help ppl that deserve my help, am generally very nice to ppl, treat all people equally, LOVE my friends and family and Rosario Dawson (joke) and finally don’t judge others for what they believe even if it sounds like hogwash to me.

Astra?? How old are you? Do you want to take a history break and get back to us?

I can’t keep debating with you if you’re not going to accept when you’re wrong. Judah was only 1 tribe of Israel….after the Assyrians and Babalonians worked them over…what was left identified themselves as Jews….(Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians but Judah was only captured by Babylon)….King Hezekiah did this….but he was still a good King…he lead Judah back to God after his father had pushed them into worshipping idols!)

But I can’t explain this to you because you’re clueless about the bible you hate!

Yes, the Jews are still waiting on Christ….

But there is a dividing line. I don’t know if you can follow this…being so young in the Word of God and Man’s history….but here goes. ALL the Jews were waiting on Christ. When he came…some believed Jesus was Him and followed him…those people were later ‘labeled” Chrisitians at Antioch. Don’t get the name mixed up with the religion. Just like ‘Jew”…don’t get the name mixed up with the religion. Half the Jews took on the name Chrisitian after Antioch…but they never stopped calling ‘themselves” Jews. Get it? Others called them Christians…then later the name stuck. But the people never set out to change their names from “Jews”.

Today we use the name Jew to describe people from Israel….AND….those of the Jewish faith. But there is a difference. Everyone from Israel is not “of” the Jewish faith…but is a ‘Jew”. Get it?

The deviding line came with Christ.

Also, all Chrisitians are Jews…but not all Jews are Chrisitians.

There are actually studies that posit that prayer is not as beneficial in healing the sick as is frequently espoused. And that insisting that the sick pray for a cure, can for some people cause more stress, since some people will NOT recover; these folks and their loved ones are left wondering why God had forsaken them. They then wonder what they had done wrong, since surely their God was a loving God, and they had been praying sincerely. Why are other people cured, but not them? Besides, any benefit that comes from prayer can likely be duplicated though another means such as meditation since it is likely the calming effects of the prayer rather than the prayer itself that is actually theraputic.

It is always interesting to me that religious folks like to point out people that were miraculously healed from cancer, AIDS, drug addiction, etc. by prayer when these same persons could easily have been cured by medical means (the medical means that of course was operating simultaneously to the prayer), or may even have been a simple misdiagnosis in the first place. What I would like to see, what would actually impress me, is if God were to heal an amputee. What I mean by that is if the amputee were to regrow their lost limb. God is all powerful, so this should not be a difficult feat. Please get back to me when this happens.

Morning Trigga!

Well, Trigga you might have a point…if we were talking about the spread of the Mother Church in Europe…they did live short lives and they were very disease ridden.

But we are going further backwards….and these people lived very long lives. They were not introduced to religion…Religion was already a huge part of their lives. They were not Pagans…they were Jews at the time of the Christ. Their religion was buried deep inside since Moses.
And some of them lived very very long lives. Worship wasn’t something they did…but a way of life….even when they turned their backs on God.

Hey, I have another question for you Atheist Cowarts with all the Moral Structure….

Why haven’t any of you corrected Astra? You know she’s wrong. You’re at least studied that much. Why havne’t you said something to her about it???? Why are you silent on all of her errors in history?

You knew about the tribe of Judah. You heard her say Moses was a Jew. Why didn’t you say something? Is it because She’s one of you?!?

Cowarts and Liars….Why don’t someone prove I’m wrong and say something to her? You’re thick as thieves aren’t you?

Speak up. She can’t here you? And neither can I…because you have no real moral code. It’s based on you and not God so you drop it and change it as you feel.

Astra…I suggest you check out Fox’s book of marters. Not everone was saved or healed. Life is in God’s hands….However He see fit.

Hey! There you go again blaming all Chrisitians for what you saw few do! I thought I was the only one that believed we indiivdually represent the whole!?!?!

I can only assume you believe this since you were so silent on the issue when that Emotional said it.
Where were you? Bathroom break? Or Bathroom Hidding….Cowart

@ Javier- Good Morning Javi!

Before the scientific revolution many things that were written were full of embellishments and untruths…… see the writings of mythologies (like greek, roman native americans of both NA and SA) and legends (like Beowolf) and so on. Many writings back then had just enough truth in them to be sort of fathomable to the mildly and poorly educated ppl of the time that they lived. I believe Colbert calls it “truthiness” So if Im a writer in the year 50 and I love a guy named Zanzibar who happens to be rather old looking…..maybe Ill suggest that he is 102 years old as a simple embellishment to draw more attention to Zanzibar.—just a thought

You refuse to address my points. I understand that you can’t.

Again, if someone calls themselves a “Jew” in this modern era, then they are basically saying that they are not Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.

Even though Judea was one tribe of the 12, there is basic solidarity among today’s Jews to the extent that they identify with the exodus, and if they are zionist in their policitical beliefs, they lay claim to the land of Israel as the land promised to Abraham by God due to Abraham’s covenant with God, since they recognize Abraham as the 1st Jew.

(in a closed minded hillbilly voice that makes me sound obviously ridiculous)—-”Yeah yeah yeah nam, Moses wasnt a Jew or nuthin like that rite, he was just a…..Christian from the future like……like that guy on Quantum Leap, just leaping through humanity like……saving ppl”
Moses was a Jew, the bible says that. Ppl dont respond to you b/c quite a bit of what your saying goes against the bible. Adam a christian……ok, if I were to have predicted that LeBron would come into the NBA and be a messiah for the league after Jordan would that make me the first LeBronian if worshiping LeBron is the next great religion?

You are irrational. You insist that Moses was not a Jew. However, Moses was descended from Abraham, the man regarded to be the 1st Jew. Moses freed the Israelites from “bondage” and led them on the exodous. Moses gave the Jewish religion its laws in the 10 commandments. Jews today celebrate the passover, in which Moses was a prime force. Today, Jews recognize Moses to be a Jew.

Trigga,

Was Moses a Jew?

Trigga, you can make LeBronism the next great religion. First you gather a “chosen people”. Then pick a representative from among them and form a covenant with that person. Then make all kinds of promises to them like “you will always win the championships”– BUT only if they fulfill the requirements of the covenant; or if you, Trigga, feel like having them win it that year (i.e. you then operate on the “its was God’s will” principle when they happen to not win).
Also, don’t forget the holy book, that’s important too. If you start writing it now, 2,000 years from now people will kill each other in conflits over whether this holy book represents truth or not. It probably son’t be difficult to find disciples, there are people who will believe anything.

Moses was a Jew, ask any Jewish person.

Upon research, yes he received the law that would become the foundation for jewish law……in the 10th century bc the jewish nation was formed and Moses came about 300-500 years later. His genetics are Jewish……..he was Jewish yes. There are writings to the contrary but they do not go with what is said in the bible.

Trigga you’re a Cowart. And any other Athiest reading this who refuse to Correct her.

I don’t trust the moral code of a cowart. I guess this debate is over.

You pretend you’ve done your research but you have all proven that you :

1) You Don’t know anything about the bible or
God…as you claimed to have researched this thing out.
2) Can’t have a solid moral code because you’re all cowarts. Your moral code floats!

but…just so you know. I knew the above was true before I signed on. I’m not debating to change you….I was debating to expose you to all the other “sincere” lost people reading these post. Until now, they thought you guys knew what you were talking about.

An Athiest’s belief is not built on sound research. It’s built on “feelings”. I hope you who are reading understand that you can’t trust feelings. I hope you can also see that it takes more Faith to live in a world filled with such wonders and “NOT” believe God built it…..they would rather belief the world exploded and made us and set everything into perfect motion.

They offer you no hope for your sad world. If you don’t know God then your heart is empty. Leave this road of destruction!! You have all been warned…Satan is smarter than you! And he’s trying to kill you in your sins! Don’t die that way. Ask God to reveal himself to you if He exist.

Don’t be a cowart!! Choose God and live!
Don’t be a cowart!! Too much is at stake!!!

Ok Im a cowart…..hmmmm you are a closed minded fanatic whose world view could fit between the face and the crystal of my watch.

I will not trust the word of men if that word does not make logical sense to me. Fanaticism is unreasonable, reality is not. It is much more likely that the word of those men that wrote your bible are incorrect rather than believe in it. Why doesnt God speak to people now? Why he manifest himself to show us cowarts that he is real? Again it is much more likely that the idea of this religion in particular is a complicated scheme for the minds of ppl rather than reality. This religion will be dismissed as all other mythology is dismissed over time……I only hope that it wont be replaced by another myth to take its place.

“why doesent he manifest himself”—-sorry its late

in the 10th century bc the jewish nation was formed and Moses came about 300-500 years later. His genetics are Jewish……..he was Jewish yes. There are writings to the contrary but they do not go with what is said in the bible.

What?!

Trigga is now a liar too….

And he typed this like it was true….

This backwards….Moses lived a couple hundred years “before” the Jew. Moses was a Hebrew.

This research took me 30 seconds…I just typed in Google…”Was Moses a Jew” and look at what I found..
http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/3021/moses.html

Oh Athiest…Where is that Moral Code????

Choose Jesus and live….there’s still time. But no one knows what tomorrow brings. You believe there is no God…No heaven…No helll???

BETTER BE RIGHT!!

1. If one Atheists represents all Atheists, then one Christian represents all Christians. Right? By your logic it should be correct. Soooo, that in turn would me you are being represented by other Christians who have murdered, raped, molested little boys and so on. Word of advice: watch the kind of company you keep.

2. I am not going to join this back and forth of facts vs. faith. However, I’d like to know what this whole “putting Europe back together” has to do with the proof of God’s existence.

Put together how? Politically? In this case, you might want consider the existence of the EU. In other words: Europe is united politically. EU law overrides national law. We’re about to have an EU Constitution. And the few smaller countries who are not yet full members of the EU have deadlines until when they will officially join.

According to your logic that God’s existence is proved by the fact that Europe cannot be united/ put back together (weird terminology btw), I just robbed you off your argument.

PS: What’s a “cowart”? Or do you mean “coward”?

“Christians have been some of the most cruel people in history. So how can a Christian make a case about other people lack of MORALS?” – da ThRONe

How did anybody get “I hate Christians” from this line? I dont care enough to hate a whole group of people or anybody for that matter.

You should have read that site earlier, because then you would have discovered from that site that there where no Christians prior to Christ. But maybe you’d rather be selective in your acceptance of what’s on the page. I wouldn’t be surprised.

Your point about Moses’ identity as a Hebrew is a specificity that is irrelevant since the Hebrews are the precursor to the Jewish religion, and since it is commonly accepted that Moses was in fact a Jew. Moses gave the Jews their commandments and what ethnically descended from Abraham who was the 1st Jew.

Who gives a fuck about Moses?…Obama takes the podium and talks to Americans about what’s happening with this country.God has NEVER cleared the clouds and faced the world and told us in person anything.

Do y’all want me to believe he channeled ALL his power and glory via a book that has been translated so many times it would turn Green Eggs and Ham into Blue Tofu with Hummus?

And if prayer is so powerful why did my great-grandmother’s breast cancer slowly and painfully kill her?Despite all her prayers and devotion to her church??Was she too black for God to save her?Why didn’t he grant her a pass to a cancer free body?

Since y’all are so sure he’s real…what is his contact info?Is he on Facebook?He must have the most advance cell phone ever since he has to talk to 6 Billion people daily. Cough up the contact info…I want to ask the Almighty a few questions.And I’m not joking either.Not a laughing matter.

What’s a cowart? Try as I may, I could not find the word anywhere.

Fanaticism is the way of the blind.
Through misspelled words and venomous diatribe, so typical of one who’s views are entirely conditional that everyone should, utilize their senses exactly as they do.

The complete ignorance or rather the perceived absoluteness of one’s religious beliefs as the only “truth” is a form of megalomaniacal root based on world domination.

All groups of people have had a “bible” so to speak, whether on the walls of a cave, a pamphlet or even handed down orally.

To dismiss everyone and condemn them all to terrible demise seems to be a theme only for those religions who seek domination.

Reminds me of a child retaliating because it didn’t get its way. Then ranting on their flavor of ice cream being better because daddy said so and the rest of the children are obviously not as worthy for daddy’s love unless of course, they drop their ice cream and only eat the accepted flavor.

Forget research for a second, why is everyone even entertaining Javier in this blog, that simply ask, Would you date an Atheist?

At the very tail of that question is, “Are you able to love past your belief system”

Arranged marriages and people who can only love within their faith are the same to me. Although the actually one or more are not actually, chosen for you, you may only choose within your ranks.

Anyone else is off limits even if you are in love with each other and it’s working.

Love in this case is not universal, not in fanatical religious ranting that still wades in the dust of someone’s mythology. The only person to name call, incite anger on any level, and base research not on an inclusive rather a “my way or the highway” basis is Javier. Fine we all have our opinions of why we wouldn’t date whomever. But the assumptions that because you won’t believe as I do leads me to believe Atheists have no moral fiber is an assholes way of saying, I have my fingers in my ears and my tongue stuck out at you.

If you should represent what it means to be whatever it is you are, then your recruitment tactics are a whole lot worse than flawed. The formally persecuted is persecuting in order to insure its survival. Nice going. You’ve represented the “world” as only through your mind and negate those that have never been in contact as sublings that are lost.

The device that is the bible is colorful in its description of the end of the world as you project you fear unto all else. Interesting the dimensions to heaven written in revelations and the exact amount of inhabitants to reside where. Mind you all this was later included my feudal lords and masters. Words that were later included in your texts. Transmutation has helped the bible and it’s followers survivor. Another word for that is leaching, parasites that include, take, borrow, steal or just change a few words around to make things stick. The charade lasted up until literacy hit the general populace and out of the books of monks.

The dead sea scrolls it is said if read by believers, it is said, would change the face of Christians, Jews and Muslims if it were allowed to be read. Their world will not be able to absorb properly the impact of its contents. Look that up. It is directed at the possibility that the start of those pilots, were but devices to control the masses.

Hence all number and accounts of anything known of their then “world” could only be written for them.
Willie Lynches writings to the slave owners is the same and once literate people got a hold of it and thought for themselves, we garnished freedom and education.

But we still haven’t harvested love without bias.

“Trigga you’re a Cowart. And any other Athiest listening who refuse to Correct her.

I don’t trust the moral code of a cowart. I guess this debate is over.” – Javier

I don’t trust the reasoning abilities of any man who insists on using a word that he cannot spell correctly. It calls into question everything else he insists on writing, too.

*sigh* I miss when this topic was about whether someone would date an atheist…

Ohhh Jazzy I’m sorry. I promise to stay on topic from now on, this is especially easy because I’ve finally realized that the questions I’ve asked will remain unanswered since they cannot be addressed.
For me, yes, I can date an atheist. I myself am not an atheist. Surprise, surprise. But I can date a person who is an atheist, or a person holding onto religion- but I could not deal with a fanatic. If the person were religious they would have to be moderate and would have to be an intelligent, logical, inquisitive, respectful person, with an open mind.
I am not opposed to arranged marriages since they emerge from a person’s particular culture, and I respect people’s culture. I respect polygamy even, if it emerges from someone’s legitimate cultural patterns, and if all parties involved are fully aware and fully respected. I could not be in a polygamous marriage/relationship (unless I were the one with the multiple spouses, LOL) but if others want to do it, so be it.
I could only be with someone I have a cultural connection. An atheist would have been fine with me.

Hi, I’m an atheist myself and it’s funny because you’re seem very surprised about the 5 million estimated atheist in the U.S. and I think I was just as surprised as you when I realised people around me actuelly keep relying to God or even go to the church… [like : you really do that?!]
My mom received a religious education (not too stric, just like everybody back then, you know..) but she was never really into it and realised stuff like “We were forced to Christinanism, so what da hell!”.
I don’t know much about my father’s beliefs, I guess he kinda thinks the same. He never mentioned it anyway lol!

As for me, not believing doesn’t make me an evil person or anything, I’m good to everyone and I’d rather date a guy who doesn’t believe neither, but if he’s not “too religious”, then why would I mind ? If he can go to his church or whatever without me, a’ight!
But if he needs me to go along with him on praying and stuff, it’s just not going to be possible. Because I just don’t believe that “something” will help, you can only face what happens anyway…

* Sorry if I made some mistakes
P.S. : I luved da picture! ^_^

Javier scares me. Thank God (or the favor from the rays of Saturn) that he wasn’t raised in Saudi Arabia. He seems like the type who would be piloting a truck full of explosives into an American embassy somewhere as we speak.

@Brandon St. Randy

Thank God (or the favor from the glaze of my sprinkles cupcake) that I’m not the only one scared of Javier over here. If he were that fanatical about anything but God/religion, they’d be carting him off to a mental hospital right about now.

uuum i wonder its some crazy azzzzzzzzzzzz people out there my question is if they dont believe in god how can they believe in them sleves, why is it that people say they dont believe in god but when someone dies they do or if someone is going to die they want god, i dont know sounds weird , you have to faith in someone or something these days , i dont know about that i would ask the person on the first date seems to me if they dont believe in something or someone r have any kind of morals they are capable of doing anything without remorse and can be a deranged luntics, maybe i am just to old fashion with morals, decent and in order, but to each its own people can live there lives how ever they choose, as long as they dont push there weird crazy bull shit my way ,

@ chicken all the time

When you don’t believe in worshipping a myth..there’s plenty room and time to believe in yourself and other people around you.

A lot of religious people committ sins and then ask for forgiveness…cause they are taught if they repent they will be forgiven.Since I have myself to hold accountable for everything…and there’s no repenting…I choose what i do in my life carefully.

Morals ,decency and order has nothing to do with religion or believing in God.Organised religion is a manufactured concept.

@chicken all the time

If u don’t believe in pork, does that mean that you don’t believe in anything else as well?

@chicken all the time

I don’t believe in god. However, I do believe in myself. Everything I want to accomplish in life comes from ME. I have the innate ability to overcome any obstacle thrown my way and can accomplish ANYTHING. As a human being, I make good/positive causes for my life, so the effect will in turn be good/positive as well. In other words, whatever one puts out there, they get back ie: cause and effect.

I whole heartedly support: “as long as they dont push there weird crazy bull shit my way”.

Would you ever consider dating an atheist?
- Yeah, why not.

What are your views on atheism?
- To each their own, as long as it’s not extreme like those ultra-neo-conservatives.

How important is someone’s religious beliefs to you when dating?
- As long as it’s not extreme, not important.

Does your soul mate have to have a relationship with God?
- Doesn’t HAVE to, but if they do, that’s fine.

What if the love of your life decided to swear off organized religion after y’all were together—would you still be able to maintain a romantic relationship with them?
- Yep. That’d be their choice.

In the event that you have a child with someone of a different religion, how would you decide what faith your offspring would follow?
- Child-free by choice. That won’t be an issue.

Could differences in faith cause you to call off a wedding?
- Nope, doubt it.

Are there any religions that clash with your own beliefs?
- Many of them. Off the top of my head, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Satanism come to mind. Used to be SDA myself and although it was a difficult and painful decision, I walked away and it was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life. Now, agnostic and questioning. I respect a few religions though – Islam, Buddhism, a few aspects of SDA, etc.

as someone who is adamant about faith and spirituality… it would be hard for me to marry to believe in someone that doesn’t believe in anyone anything or any being that may be higher than they are

As a Catholic school educated atheist this forum makes me smile. If you notice the non-believers seem to know more about religious belief and the history of those beliefs moreso than the so called believers. When people say they would not date an atheist it always reminds me of that quote: “Never trust a man who does not drink to excess”.

That is one of the problems with religion or any other totalitarian belief system, you are to be excluded if you refuse to drink the Kool Aid.

I have dealt with many things in this life, thus far. but have never met an athiest.

I respect another person’s opinion….don’t have to agree, but yes, respect it. I know personally I could not have a relationship with an anthiest.

First, how can two walk together, except they both agree???? God is too much in my life to play patty cake with the devil. We all believe in something or someone…no if’s, ands, or buts, about it. Even when one doesn’t believe, they’re believing not to believe.

You know we’re all here for a purpose, yes, God’s purpose for our lives, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, & when it’s time to punch that clock….it’s over.

Here’s the reality: Just because a person doesn’t believe an airplane is in the sky, doesn’t negate the fact that planes are in the sky everyday…
Just because a person chooses not to believe in God does not take away the fact that God exists!

He (God) gives us a free will….how loving is that??? He could force us to do this or that, but he doesn’t. He wants it to come from our heart/s to love him and believe. Yes, it is a walk of faith,
we can’t see him in the natural sense, but he sure enough is ALIVE and actually doing QUITE WELL!

It’s certainly not about only calling on him, when we are in trouble. Matter of fact, it’s not even about religion. It’s simply about having a relationship with him daily. Acknowledging him and his deity.

To those of you who are stuck in the middle….& not quite sure. If you simply ask him to prove himself to you, oh trust me, he will. He has no problems whatsovever! The greatest news with him is that, when you ask him to do something you can rest assure it’s done right with accuracy.

Yes, he is a peculiar God ( I suspect that’s why some find it hard to believe), it’s probably easier to think it’s a bunch of mumbo jumbo, it does defy all reason of our logic. But here’s the deal:

If you have a vacuum cleaner sitting in your living room and you know you need it to run…. you can look at that vacuum cleaner all day long. Your logic tells you it’s a vacuum cleaner, and you know what it’s used for, but only until you plug it in & turn on the switch, will you get the results you need from the vacuum cleaner.

My point is: God is omnipresent, meaning he has the capability of being everywhere simultaneously…whatever you need, ask him.

My friend, it’s very simple: Just as we have our parents, God is our Heavenly father. He has said in his word “if you ask me for a fish, why would i give you a serpent”? He loves each & every one of us…when we’re right, when we’re wrong, when we’re weak, when we’re strong.

I used the vacuum cleaner as an analogy, just to say it’s not his (God) fault if he’s given us the tools (Bible for one), to work with, and we don’t plug in. You get my drift. Peace!

Well this debate has definitely taken an angry tone

First off:
@da Throne – you stated that no one knows the truth, the’re only facts and opinions. But really? Aren’t facts, something that you know is true? This argument is nonsensical.

I am a devout Christian and it really pains me to see such anger against Christians and other people of faith. Some claim that we are brainwashed but in reality, that’s not the truth. Christians are people who decide to follow Christ. When I look around the world I see a beautiful universe. How beautiful are the mountains, and trees, and natural wonders. How beautiful the stars and planets are. And I look around and see all the order in the universe: how the tides go in and out. How the planets revolve around the sun, how the season change, how our ecosystems are interconnected. And I think it is really foolish to believe that all this happened by chance, by coincidence. In science we say the more complicated something is, the less likely it is to occur by chance. I mean, we have parts of the human body, we don’t even know what they do, but we know we can’t live without them. Faith is belief in something you can’t see. (Hebrews 11:1). That is whole point! For folks to say, “prove that God is exists,” it’s a silly exercise.

@paulette-BAJAN-gal your issue seems to be against organized religion and your argument that people can have a moral code devoid or a higher power is a nonplus. Where do your morals and standards come from where did you get your original set of morals from? Example: murder. Right or wrong?

I think this post clearly examples that atheist and people of faith should not intermarry. Two crackheads can live happily ever after, but opposites will probably end in divorce.

@Girl Politik

Most people dont choose there religion it is giving to them if that isnt brainwashing I dont know what is. As a person of African decent christianity wasnt even my ancestors beliefs. It was force upon them by the slave owners as a form of control. FACT!

@Girl Politik

I find that opposites are beneficial for conversation and interaction. Your assertion that atheists and people of faith should not marry strikes me as somewhat extreme – as an atheist, I would have no problem having a relationship with someone who believed differently from myself. In my experience, the only ones who cannot tolerate a challenge to their belief system are those who are not secure in it, or those who dislike confronting contradictions in their worldview. I welcome challenges to my way of thinking, as having a fixed and unassailable paradigm tends to result in that paradigm drifting out of touch with reality – being wrong, in short.

I could run through the logical fallacies in your post and nitpick, but suffice to say that after evaluation and consideration I find your reasoning to be unconvincing. If you somehow came up with a logically coherent argument for theology, I’d be right there with you in a heartbeat – however, as you so concisely put it, proving the divine is a silly exercise at best.

@Theophage – the question is not whether you would be in a relationship with someone of faith when you are an atheist, it’s whether you would choose to marry. Then, complicated questions arise:

1. How do you form a union when one person beleives that marriage is a sacred covenant between themselves, their partner, and God, and the other belives it’s a civil union solidified only by ceremony and law?

2. How do you raise children and give them guidance on spirituality (and these wiill arise)? because “letting children find their own way” often equates to withdrawing any type of spiritual instruction, which I am not sure is best for the next generation.

Second off, calling people of faith who have very firm belifs insecure because they disagree with your worldview is quite boorish. It’s funny how people who disagree with a certain viewpiont are labled intolerant. No, no – don’t get it twisted, we just don’t agree. The fact that you are an ath. does not in one bit make me question my faith in Jesus. Period.

@ da throne – many children are brought in a particular faith traditions, but every adult must make their own choice. Also, your comment really proves your real ignorance of the origins of Christianity. The first three Christian churches formed in the first century were started in Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria, which is Egpyt. Within the first century, the largest Christian congregations were found in Nubia (modern day sudan), and Aksum, (modern day Ethiopia). Christ acutally lived for four years in modern day Egypt and many of his Apostles were from African Nations. (Ex: Mark was born in Libya). So I am not sure where you have learned this revisionist history of Christianity but might not be a bad idea to take a trip to your local Africana Studies Department.

Its gonna take a few generations…actually many generations before Christianity is denounced.It’s a fake, patriarchal, egotistical load of bull…no matter how you dice and cut it.

To put a false God before your real flesh and blood fellowmen is detrimental…it has ruined this world.The degradation of the female via religious order has set us back years in terms of progress and evolution.

I don’t care where the religion started and what color the people were…poison is poison.It creates a cult mentally that stifles individual thought and the natural order of life.But I don’t expect believers to understand anything other than what’s written in the holy book…God told you to believe only in him….before Jesus Christ there was nothing…no people…no culture…no evolution…no dinosaurs…nothing.

I actually disagreee. Christianity has been going strong since 33 A.D. so I am not sure that your projection that it’s going to die out in a couple of generations is correct.

When the Pharisees asked Jesus what were the greatest commandments he replied:

1. Love God with all your heat, mind & sold
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

@Paulette-BAJAN-gal
I am not sure where you get the notion that Christians don’t believe in Dinosaurs or Evolution, or that humans lacked culture prior to Jesus cause obviously that’s not true. And if anyone made those kinds of statements were gravely misinformed.

But I’m genuinely curious about your worldview. What do you think about this universe? About the nature of man? How it all started? How we got here? I’d be interested in hearing your paradigmatic worldview.

When “we” take over the and declare a “Pasta Theocracy”, all those smarty pants atheists who dispute the existance of it’s holyness the FSM will be burned at the stake for their heretical beliefs… Then their livers will be pan seared with sauteed summer veggies and surved hot along with some fava beans and chianti… Yah, that’s it!

[...] Originally Posted Here Share and Enjoy: [...]

I don’t mind dating an Atheist. I just won’t marry one because she and I won’t be able to share our belief in God.

I myself am atheist. I am a die-hard, card-carrying, never-go-to-church-even-if-I-were-homeless atheist. I know most people feel a need to believe in something and that something is usually a Higher Being or Creator.

For me, it’s not about wondering or pondering over our origins; why are we here? How did the world come to be? Just about everything that can’t be explained: It came from God. The refuge for the person with no answer and no argument.

Make no mistake: I grew up in the church. From the time I was knee-high to a duck, I was taken to church every Sunday. I was in the choir, I volunteered in the church and particpated in church programs for Easter, Christmas and so on.

Even at the age of six, I knew I didn’t believe what I was learning in Sunday school or hearing during the service. I remember one day when I was about seven and my grandmother took me with her to the church and we were making lunch and one of my grandmother’s friends came out to help. They talked for awhile and then the friend asked me about the Bible and Jesus and I started to answer in the expected way, then I thought about it. I told her I didn’t really believe all of that God stuff and my grandmother was beside herself.

I was ordered to get a page of the Bible everyday and I was to attend every church service. I did this for several months and my grandmother asked me about Jesus and the Bible and I told her I still didn’t believe it and then I was required to memorize and quote Scripture and I spent my Sundays in the church kitchen while the minister preached at me for hours on end.

By the time I was 14, I told my grandmother, “No more,” and she demanded I choose. I chose to leave the church and she had the minister excommunicate me and was angry I didn’t care.

My dating life was never an issue. While I’ve never dated an atheist myself, I’ve dated men of several faiths and all of them believed in God. Dating is actually not as difficult as one might think for an atheist; as long as two people who care about each other don’t proselytize to each other or tell the other their beliefs are wrong, it can actually work and become the beginning of a beautiful relationship. It’s when they try to get you to join them for Bible study or church that the problems arise. I have ended relationships with men who demanded that I believe in God–like it really works like that–or he would leave. I told him to go; my beliefs are as important to me as his were to him.

Some people won’t date an atheist because it’s something foreign to them, because they’ve been told all their lives they have to believe in God and they would suffer the consequences if they ever “questioned God or the Bible.” Many times my siblings were punished for questioning something, but I always pushed the envelope. Be open to something new. Question it if you have doubts.

There is no such thing as right or wrong beliefs. What’s right for one may not be for another, but beliefs are very personal and relative. Even Christians don’t believe in the same things and interpret the Bible the same way as other Christians. IMO most people who believe in God are hypocrites because while they preach the Bible, they don’t practice it. They don’t want to know what would Jesus do so they can do it, they want to know so they can tell others to do it.

Atheists are people. I have been shunned and cut off from my family because of my beliefs and dumped by men because of it, but it never fails; these Christians and believers always end up having to turn to atheist me for help and they don’t turn in vain.

People are just people. I’ve given my atheist blood to save the life of many God-fearing people who made it clear they didn’t want the blood of an atheist, I’ve donated bone marrow to a man who damned me to hell for being atheist and I even donated blood to a man who dumped me for not believing and then later he needed surgery and not one of his God-fearing family members would give him blood so he could live, so he came to me.

We are all people regardless of what we believe. I’m cerrtain that no one would refuse an organ for a transplant or money if they were broke or a job just because it came from an atheist. Believe me when I tell you, most people don’t. I see it and do it everyday.

While I will date an atheist since I am one, I will not date a devout, overly religious person and I will not date God-haters; they are the absolute worst. People on extreme ends of the spectrum would just drive me nuts.